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Best Cornwall....?


Don McPhee

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Though it would be hard to find KI-396's to audition,  I would strongly urge you to do so before choosing them over the Cornwalls

 

I agree with you there and I think that can be said about ANY speaker that you are going go spend this Kind of coin on. 

 

This is pretty good for a 2-way design.  

 

It's ridiculously good

 

But for use with rock or jazz I would think they'd require a subwoofer.

 

You are ABSOLUTELY right about this.   They NEED Subwoofer(s).   Problem may be, depending on how you like to listen, you need to find bass to keep up with them.   I got that covered, but many here would say my setup is Def ugly.   That I don't so much care about.   Wouldn't be my first choice aestheticslly, but there there weren't really options.. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Oicu812 said:

We need to stop bragging them up, gentlemen.  Otherwise, their prices on the used market will start going the same way that the veneered have recently.

You might be right. Sold a set of KP250II's and 480's + a nice set of KP-301II's to a guy who had been to a B&W outlet. He thought those B&W's were hysterically bad compared to what he bought. Then I mentioned I might be getting some KPT-456's in and they were a bit better than the KP-450's he had just heard. He said I will take a set when they get in and his son will get the other stuff.

  Word is getting out there This guy researched and bypassed entirely the process most of us go though working up the food chain from vintage veneer to Pro stuff.

4 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Also, note that the 396's have an MDF front baffle (motorboard).  This wouldn't bother me at all but there are some here who think MDF is incompatible w/ quality speakers. :)

I could reluctantly handle sawdust motorboards and would retrofit the horn screws with T-nuts and I would imagine the woofer has them already. Of course Klipsch literature further states that since these can be flown all the rest of it is made with 7 ply Birch for some strange reason.  I notice that they are going with a lower ply count than Baltic Birch so I expect the bean counters decided that cheaper birch plywood was OK.

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I was recently at the local ABT once again and heard the B&W 800's, they were hooked up to a bunch of McIntosh gear that caught my eye. I listened to them for a minute along with much other gear and thought how awful sounding they were for their good looks.

 

It was worth the good laugh afterwords when i saw the price tag.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

Though it would be hard to find KI-396's to audition,  I would strongly urge you to do so before choosing them over the Cornwalls.  Though the CW III's aren't exactly full-range speakers, the KI-396's don't even come close.  They are reasonably linear (+/- 3db)  only to like 60 hz.  They extend deeper than this but aren't very linear (to 35hz but +/- 10db).  This is pretty good for a 2-way design.  But for use with rock or jazz I would think they'd require a subwoofer.  

 

These speakers strike me as being intended more for PA and small theater applications than they are for audiophiles.  The engineering priority was more about brute power and durability than refinement.  So make sure this is your priority too.  Keep in mind that unless your listening room is the size of a banquet hall and you plan on sitting 40 feet from your speakers, the CW's can also play loud enough, without distorting, to destroy your hearing w/ less than 10 watts. 

 

Also, note that the 396's have an MDF front baffle (motorboard).  This wouldn't bother me at all but there are some here who think MDF is incompatible w/ quality speakers. :)

 

@Don McPhee

I would say to pick up the 396's, and play with them for a couple of months.  You will not lose any money on them, they will be easy to turn around if you decide to sell them.  That way, you get a nice, long audition period.  It will probably be easier that way, and easier to audition CW3's elsewhere to do your "seat of the pants" comparison.

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44 minutes ago, Schu said:

they look awful also...

Think Buck Rodgers. Here we have the fore runner to the fabulous Diamond Diaphragm Tweeter in a Solid Billet Machined Aluminum Housing. The B&W bean counters cut the guns off though because it cost to much to duplicate those. Remember folks PLEASE do not touch our $1,000.00 Diamond Tweeter Diaphragms.

buck-rogers-satellite.jpg

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On 11/20/2018 at 10:42 AM, Dave A said:

 Word is getting out there This guy researched and bypassed entirely the process most of us go though working up the food chain from vintage veneer to Pro stuff.

 

 

Your premise strikes me as far fetched.  You’re suggesting that for their most discriminating listeners whose environment is quiet and not terribly voluminous, Klipsch engineers/builds speakers that sound poorer than those that are engineered for commercial applications, where fidelity matters far less than durability, wide dispersion, and max SPL - eg., train stations, theaters, amusement parks, etc.  

 

 I don’t by it at all.  I think if your listening environment is the size of the aforementioned venues then perhaps their commercial gear is a better choice, but those behemoths - with their limited F/R and outrageously high max SPL - are NOT best suited to normal sized listening rooms.

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19 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

. . . are NOT best suited to normal sized listening rooms.

 

I, and many here, disagree.  What allows efficient low distortion at high volumes, frequently provides exemplary sound at domestic volume levels.  Jubilees are a case in point.

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42 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 I don’t by it at all.  I think if your listening environment is the size of the aforementioned venues then perhaps their commercial gear is a better choice, but those behemoths - with their limited F/R and outrageously high max SPL - are NOT best suited to normal sized listening rooms.

 

Just like you can drive 15 MPH in a school zone while driving a Ferrari, the commercial speakers will also play at low levels.  Just because a Ferrari can go 200+ mph doesn't mean it has to.  Just because their cinema speakers can go exceedingly loud, doesn't mean they have to.

 

Meanwhile, back at the farm...  I was told on more than one occasion by Mr. Hunter that Klipsch designs ALL their speakers for high fidelity...

 

Just some random thoughts to mull over.

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

Your premise strikes me as far fetched.  You’re suggesting that for their most discriminating listeners whose environment is quiet and not terribly voluminous, Klipsch engineers/builds speakers that sound poorer than those that are engineered for commercial applications, where fidelity matters far less than durability, wide dispersion, and max SPL - eg., train stations, theaters, amusement parks, etc.  

 

 I don’t by it at all.  I think if your listening environment is the size of the aforementioned venues then perhaps their commercial gear is a better choice, but those behemoths - with their limited F/R and outrageously high max SPL - are NOT best suited to normal sized listening rooms.

The very best set of speakers ever in my shop are the current MCM 1900's at any level. KPT-456's are second. Have you actually heard any of these better Klipsch Pro speakers to base your opinion on? I have gone through Cornwall I and II, Forte I and II, Chorus I and II and Heresy I and II and La Scalas in my shop. All of them had re-capped crossovers and drivers checked for function to make sure they were performing well.  Some like a current set of Chorus I's I have were recapped and had my MAHL tweeter with DE120 put in and sound noticeably better than stock. Same for LSI and La Scalas. I have talked with others who have owned the Belle and KHorns (the only traditional Vintage I have not owned) and some of the same Pro gear I have had so we can share experiences with a common reference point. My comments are based on actual possession and use and not conjecture. What are yours based on?

 

  You want true hi fidelity get a set of MCM's and listen to a good copy of Bach Cello and hear for the first time all the detail of a stringed instrument. They excel at low volume playback with any genre I have. The 456's are right behind. The best La Scala and one that made me hesitate before I sold it was an LSI fiberglass and AL trim covered with a recapped AA crossover, a K-55-V soldered lug mid drivers and my MAHL tweets with the DE120 in them. That is the only one that came close to my better Pro gear and it happened to also be Pro version but closer to vintage traditional stuff than my other Pro speakers are. This current Chorus I is pretty awesome but required work to get there and it is pretty inferior to the MCM all things considered. Go find some to listen to and you will change your mind. If you are at all close to Middle Tennessee at some point in time stop in and hear for yourself, my door is open for fellow Klipsh users.

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31 minutes ago, Dave A said:

The very best set of speakers ever in my shop are the current MCM 1900's at any level. KPT-456's are second. Have you actually heard any of these better Klipsch Pro speakers to base your opinion on? I have gone through Cornwall I and II, Forte I and II, Chorus I and II and Heresy I and II and La Scalas in my shop. All of them had re-capped crossovers and drivers checked for function to make sure they were performing well.  Some like a current set of Chorus I's I have were recapped and had my MAHL tweeter with DE120 put in and sound noticeably better than stock. Same for LSI and La Scalas. I have talked with others who have owned the Belle and KHorns (the only traditional Vintage I have not owned) and some of the same Pro gear I have had so we can share experiences with a common reference point. My comments are based on actual possession and use and not conjecture. What are yours based on?

 

So you're basically saying "I've heard 'em all and can tell you unequivocally that the XXX's sound better than the rest."  Of course, it's not practical for someone choosing b/w MCM 1900's and K-horns to hear them in the same environment, same day, using the same music and - preferably - blinded.  So they can either take your word for it or maybe give some thought to what your suggesting; that Klipsch speakers are engineered for huge spaces, and practically no boundary reflections are better sounding that those engineered specifically for the dimensions and volumes of a typical home environment.  

 

I have no expectations of changing your mind or that of anyone else who already owns these speakers.  My goal is to inform the person, who has not yet purchased their speakers, to give serious thought to each side of this discussion and come to their own decision about which is more likely to be  true.  

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47 minutes ago, Dave A said:

KP456 smaller footprint than KHorn and very close to Cornwall and la Scala so size is not limiting here. So in other words you have not heard any of these Pro speakers. Why are you so adamant against something you have not heard in person?

 

I would love to.  ..And certainly would have loved to before buying my cornwalls.  ..But that would have only answered the question: what sounds better to me??  And it would be near impossible finding a dealer who has these commercial speakers on hand and set up to compare with their audiophile intended speakers.  ...So, lacking any opportunity to directly compare, we have to do a little critical thinking:  Why would Klipsch dumb-down a speaker that is going to be listened to by a more discriminating listener who listens in a more predictable environment and does so without all the extraneous noise found in venues where their pro speakers are typically used.  Again, I would think their Pro speakers are engineered more for brute SPL and durability than they are for wide F/R, linearity, and imaging.

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31 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

I would love to.  ..And certainly would have loved to before buying my cornwalls.  ..But that would have only answered the question: what sounds better to me??  And it would be near impossible finding a dealer who has these commercial speakers on hand and set up to compare with their audiophile intended speakers.  ...So, lacking any opportunity to directly compare, we have to do a little critical thinking:  Why would Klipsch dumb-down a speaker that is going to be listened to by a more discriminating listener who listens in a more predictable environment and does so without all the extraneous noise found in venues where their pro speakers are typically used.  Again, I would think their Pro speakers are engineered more for brute SPL and durability than they are for wide F/R, linearity, and imagining.

I had to log on to answer this. You can think that about Klipsch pro speakers but you are thinking wrong. Every speaker that is designed, is designed for ALL of Paul’s goals. As he once told me, it should not matter if you plug in a turntable or a live band, it has to sound very good and true to the input. The fact that it has to provide higher max spls is an added spec; not to replace the other specs. 

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10 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

.But that would have only answered the question: what sounds better to me??

How important is that question to you? Klipsch Pro dealers are hard to find but there are probably more pro gear owners close to you than you might believe. This forum is an excellent place to start that search and I value opinions here far more than going to stores and asking sales people. If you were here today we could do side by side comparisons of an upgraded Chorus I, Heresy I, Forte II, KP-301, KP-250+KP-115, KP-450, KP-201, MCM 1900 and cheezy EAW and JBL boat anchor stuff I am probably never going to get rid of. I have some beater LSI's from the Oak Ridge Boys here too that look terrible but sound decent. There are people in your neck of the woods that have all kinds of stuff you just don't know them.

  I went through the same process and for years never considered the pro stuff because it was least talked about. Cornwall and KHorn and La Scala and Forte and Heresy was I bet 95% of all the conversation I saw for a long time. I bought that fiberglass covered LSI because it was offered to me not because I sought it out. Once I had it and fixed the bad K-43 and recapped the crossover it was WOW this sounds much better than those La Scala's did. That got me thinking and then I started to work my way up that food chain as things became available and I can assure you I spent money and time like many do to find out rather than go and hear all these things first. But the journey is fun too and you get to meet good people along the way so it's all good.

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32 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

I would love to.  ..And certainly would have loved to before buying my cornwalls.  ..But that would have only answered the question: what sounds better to me??  And it would be near impossible finding a dealer who has these commercial speakers on hand and set up to compare with their audiophile intended speakers.  ...So, lacking any opportunity to directly compare, we have to do a little critical thinking:  Why would Klipsch dumb-down a speaker that is going to be listened to by a more discriminating listener who listens in a more predictable environment and does so without all the extraneous noise found in venues where their pro speakers are typically used.  Again, I would think their Pro speakers are engineered more for brute SPL and durability than they are for wide F/R, linearity, and imagining.

 

@Dave A ODS123 is right.  Pro equipment sucks for home use.

 

I have a free removal service to take those worthless pieces of junk out for you, without you needing to soil your hands by touching them.  Just give me a PM, and we will arrange a time for me to do a quick pick up and disposal of these unwanted turds.

  pirateship.gif

 

 

 

That's all.  And now back to our normal banter. 

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Just now, Chief bonehead said:

I had to log on to answer this. You can think that about Klipsch pro speakers but you are thinking wrong. Every speaker that is designed, is designed for ALL of Paul’s goals. As he once told me, it should not matter if you plug in a turntable or a live band, it has to sound very good and true to the input. The fact that it has to provide higher max spls is an added spec; not to replace the other specs. 

 

Ok, so then why should someone contemplating a Klipsch speaker for their great-room (let's say 18' by 25') expect that a speaker from Klipsch's pro series will sound better than something from their Heritage line?  ..Because that is what is being claimed here

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3 minutes ago, Oicu812 said:

have a free removal service to take those worthless pieces of junk out for you, without you needing to soil your hands by touching them.  Just give me a PM, and we will arrange a time for me to do a quick pick up and disposal of these unwanted turds.

Great I have some JBL and EAW's for you. When can I schedule pickup?

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