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My experience with Klipsch KLF20


LeoSang

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Just wanted to share my experience with these speakers. Your Opinion / thoughts........  
 
For a long time Polk RTA 15T has been my primary speaker. RTA15T doesn't have large active woofer. It has four 6.5 inch active bass / mid-range driver with two 10" passive bass radiators.
 
Overall I was very happy with these but, as with all of us, I wanted a better performing speaker especially on the lower frequencies (Bass). Thinking that the absence of a large active driver on RTA might be limiting  bass performance, I thought of getting a speaker with large active woofer. I zeroed-in on Klipsch KLF 20 because I've heard lot of positives about these speakers and also like the look of it. I got these speakers few days back and spend close to 50 hours resorting it (bracing, cleaning, re-paint, inspection and testing).
 
Put this to test and following were my observations when compared to Polk RTA 15T. I use ATM7 automatic speaker selector since I have one main system and several speakers connected to the system. 
 
1) KFL20 is much louder at the same volume level.
2) KLF20, although has decent bass, lacks the punch and tightness of bass that Polk has especially lower frequency (20~40 Hz range) 
3) KLF20 sounded woomy and dull although has better mid range performance than RTAs.
4) RTA15T sounds much cleaner and sweater.
 
Has anyone else have any experience with these Klipsch speakers ?
 
I have decide to let these speaker go and continue my search for better speaker.   
 
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Try a Forte or chrorus model instead and I doubt you would say they same.   Fortes are killer speakers for the price and I don't find their bass to be sloppy or boomy due to the passive radiator.   It will take a little patience with placement.   The KLF has large woofers with large rear ports.  I am assuming that is why you felt this way about the bass.   I try to avoid rear ported speakers as I dont have enough room to pull them away from the wall.   Front ported or passive radiator for me. 

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32 minutes ago, LeoSang said:
Has anyone else have any experience with these Klipsch speakers ?
 
I have decide to let these speaker go and continue my search for better speaker.   

I don't have any experience with the KLF-20's, but several people here have.  I've never heard them.

 

May I ask what amp you are using, what audio source and what genre of music?  Klipsch speakers are very well known for exposing poor recordings.

 

If you are looking for vintage Klipsch, I have the Klipsch CF-4, highly recommended.  The CF-3 is likewise highly touted for it's dynamic sound. 

 

If you can afford it on the used market you might try the Klipsch La Scala $1250 average or the Klipschorn, otherwise known as a Khorn $2200.  Deals can be found for both. The last two will give you dynamic punch you've never heard before, especially the Khorn.

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Unfortunately the KLF series has suffered from poorly sealed cabinets due to glue failing over time.  There are several writeups regarding sealing the cabinets and the extremely positive results that people have had in doing so.  The back panel especially is the most likely to fail.  Any kind of cabinet issue like that will result in a lot of the lower bass output to be lost.

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1 hour ago, wuzzzer said:

Unfortunately the KLF series has suffered from poorly sealed cabinets due to glue failing over time.  There are several writeups regarding sealing the cabinets and the extremely positive results that people have had in doing so.  The back panel especially is the most likely to fail.  Any kind of cabinet issue like that will result in a lot of the lower bass output to be lost.

this is not exactly correct. The problem with the Epic series was with a defective hot melt adhesive and these problems showed up immediately and were for the most part dealt with by Klipsch in short order. Klipsch also sued the adhesive manufacturer as they replaced the defective units or most of them with new units with non defective hot melt adhesive. The subsequent Epic production was not an issue. Adhesive issues did not impact the cabinet carcass (top,bottom and sides) but rather the baffles (front and back) because they are laminated with Melamine which is like a low tech non stick surface. The adhesive manufacturer developed a hot melt adhesive specifically for bonding the Melamine laminated baffles to the carcass. So if you have adhesive issues with one baffle you can expect to also have issues with the other baffle(s). If you are going to take your Epics apart then you may as well take advantage of the opportunity to include some brace work and kill two birds with one stone.

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3 hours ago, wvu80 said:

I don't have any experience with the KLF-20's, but several people here have.  I've never heard them.

 

May I ask what amp you are using, what audio source and what genre of music?  Klipsch speakers are very well known for exposing poor recordings.

 

If you are looking for vintage Klipsch, I have the Klipsch CF-4, highly recommended.  The CF-3 is likewise highly touted for it's dynamic sound. 

 

If you can afford it on the used market you might try the Klipsch La Scala $1250 average or the Klipschorn, otherwise known as a Khorn $2200.  Deals can be found for both. The last two will give you dynamic punch you've never heard before, especially the Khorn.

Thanks for quick response.

 

My main amp is Emotiva XPA 2 which I run with Kenwood C2 preamp. For source I have Onkyo 7030 CD player for regular CDs and a Sony Blu-ray player for SACD.  

 

I mostly listen to alternative / progressive rock....Dire Straits, Police, REM, Pink Floyd, A-ha...

 

I did some more testing and realize that the Midrange horns on these speakers are overwhelming and I I mellow the mid range down and increase the volume the speaker sounds around twice as better but not as good as RTA.

 

I'll check on CF4. yes I ve heard La scala and Khorns and both of them are amazing but out of my budget.    

  

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3 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Try a Forte or chrorus model instead and I doubt you would say they same.   Fortes are killer speakers for the price and I don't find their bass to be sloppy or boomy due to the passive radiator.   It will take a little patience with placement.   The KLF has large woofers with large rear ports.  I am assuming that is why you felt this way about the bass.   I try to avoid rear ported speakers as I dont have enough room to pull them away from the wall.   Front ported or passive radiator for me. 

OK will try there is I find one. Thanks

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10 minutes ago, LeoSang said:

I did some more testing and realize that the Midrange horns on these speakers are overwhelming and I I mellow the mid range down and increase the volume the speaker sounds around twice as better but not as good as RTA.    

That's a good observation.

 

In general Klipsch really shines the louder you play them because of low distortion.  They are loud but they don't sound loud, if that makes any sense. 

 

While other speakers like my Bose 301's sound good at low to medium volume when you crank them up the sound becomes unbalanced, the highs compress, the mids and lows just sound muddy.  That is where the Klipsch simply walk away from the Bose, at least in my experience.

 

Your gear looks great and you have plenty of power with the Emo for the rock/alternative you listen to.  For me it's mostly classical, jazz, drum corps and female vocal.  For my listening preferences, Klipsch is just about unbeatable.

 

The KLF speakers have a good rep but there are better ones out there.  For two-channel listening even though I love my CF-4's, nothing matches a pair of Khorns.

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2 hours ago, wuzzzer said:

Unfortunately the KLF series has suffered from poorly sealed cabinets due to glue failing over time.  There are several writeups regarding sealing the cabinets and the extremely positive results that people have had in doing so.  The back panel especially is the most likely to fail.  Any kind of cabinet issue like that will result in a lot of the lower bass output to be lost.

Thanks. Yes I'm aware of these issue and hence had completely removed front and rear, removed the glue, used 3/4 " wood all around and also put some additional bracing before putting front and rear back on the cabinet. I used high quality polyurethane glue and the cabinet is like a tank now.   

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I did some more testing and realize that the Midrange horns on these speakers are overwhelming   
  


The A55-G mid drivers really help with this as well as using some EQ to cut the mids. It really balances out the speaker.

If you want KLF's to really impress, it requires above and beyond stock components/ cabinets.



Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, SWL said:


 

 


The A55-G mid drivers really help with this as well as using some EQ to cut the mids. It really balances out the speaker.

If you want KLF's to really impress, it requires above and beyond stock components/ cabinets.



I'll try it out thanks...

 

 

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I found your findings on your KLF-20's quite interesting and a little familiar to my own experience. I have both the KLF-30's and KLF-20's and I also run Emotiva amps through them. If you are listening mainly to Pink Floyd, The Police and Dire Straits and you find the KLF lacking bass or dynamics, I would look to your Kenwood Preamp as the weak spot in your system. I had to look outside the box before I believed it for myself.

 

I used a vintage Technics preamp initially with my Emotiva XPA-2 I have to admit, I was not overly impressed with the results. Even on Heresys the sound was kind of dull, which surprised me because the Heresys are known for their detail and punch. After about six months I decided to move to an Emotiva XDA-2, and right away I heard improvement in the overall sound ...however the dynamics were still sort of lacking. I found the bass to sound a bit dull, lifeless and even a bit muddy. Whether I was listening through my Infinity SM152, my KLF-30 or my Heresy the sound was good, but not great. It sounded like something was lacking.

 

I had been extremely happy with my Sherbourn SR-120 AVR that I first bought new in 2013 from Emotiva when Sherbourn and Emotiva merged. The Twin Cirrus DAC chip in this AVR sounds fantastic, I would even go as far as saying it rivals my buddy's audiophile $3k Bryston Preamp. I now own four of these SR-120, I enjoyed the sound that much. After a little research I found that Sherbourn also made Pre/Pros with a similar if not identical chassis and set up of the SR-120, minus the amp section....the PT-7020C4 is one of them.

 

So I sought out the Sherbourn PT-7020C4 Preamp/Processor to find out if this preamp could give me that same distinct sound and detail as I got out of the SR-120 to pair with my Emotiva amps. At first I paired it with my XPA-2 and XPA-5 for home theater, and once again I was extremely happy with the dynamic response, detail and clarity the pre/pro was putting out.

 

I wondered since I enjoyed this sound so much, how would it work in a two channel set up? So I decided to try my Sherbourn PT-7020C4 with my Emotiva ERC-3 CD player hooked up with my Emotiva XPA-2. I went from the ERC-3 into the balanced analog inputs on the PT-7020C4 and out to my Emotiva XPA-2. Once it was set up I ran it with no subs, no EQ, no ARC and could finally say everything came together for me.

 

I am absolutely thrilled with the outcome. The Twin Cirrus chips they used in these Sherbourn is nothing short of amazing. It breathed new life into my speakers in two channel and pushed the KLF into phenom territory. No mods, no bracing, no re-glue. ( I was lucky enough to come across three mint pair of KLF-30 and I have not dared touch anything.) 

 

I now run all four of my two channel set ups with this PT-7020C4, plus I have two more pulling home theater duty. Along with the four SR-120 AVR's I couldn't be happier.

 

Before you give up on your KLF-20's you owe it to yourself to try a different preamp. I found the bass tightened up, the mids and tweeters are still strong but more natural sounding (before I found the vocals, especially female vocals sounded a bit nasal. It was pretty noticeable through the Technics preamp and less so with the Emotiva XDA-2. That all ended when I hooked up the Sherbourn.

 

Not saying you have to seek out this exact pre/pro as I have for yourself but I think you should try to listen to something, maybe even several preamps and processors to get a better grip of what the potential of the KLF actually is. By the way, I have another buddy that tried this pairing on the Klipsch Owners Facebook group and his findings were very similar to my own. He has even heard similar improvement hooked up to his Paradigm towers...he now owns three different Sherbourn pre/pros that share this chip set. The PT-7020A, a PT-7020C4 and a PT-7030.

 

 

Tim

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19 hours ago, moray james said:

this is not exactly correct. The problem with the Epic series was with a defective hot melt adhesive and these problems showed up immediately and were for the most part dealt with by Klipsch in short order. Klipsch also sued the adhesive manufacturer as they replaced the defective units or most of them with new units with non defective hot melt adhesive. The subsequent Epic production was not an issue. Adhesive issues did not impact the cabinet carcass (top,bottom and sides) but rather the baffles (front and back) because they are laminated with Melamine which is like a low tech non stick surface. The adhesive manufacturer developed a hot melt adhesive specifically for bonding the Melamine laminated baffles to the carcass. So if you have adhesive issues with one baffle you can expect to also have issues with the other baffle(s). If you are going to take your Epics apart then you may as well take advantage of the opportunity to include some brace work and kill two birds with one stone.

 

this thread & the statements about cabinet issues is not about the epic series, its about the notorious cabinet failures on the KLF series & some KG series.  the majority of epics never had the problems of klf/kg, there may have been some small issues with early epics but i have never heard of it being anything like the klf/kgs.  in fact, except for 1 or 2 mentions of epic problems ive never heard of it at all with them, the  epics are built better/different than the klfs.

 

i owned a pair of kg 5.5 i bought used back in the 90's, (have owned many other pairs too) & when i auditioned them they sounded great but didnt crank them up at teh sellers house.  when i got them home & played some loud bass heavy music in them i instantly heard a loud vibration or rattle sound on bass beats, initially thought it was a bad woofer, so i took them to my local klipsch dealeer for repair expecting to pay for a new woofer or 2, right away the guy said it was the cabinets & they sent them to klipsch for repair, these were out of warranty & i said they were bought used, when they came back a few weeks later they were repaired free of charge & no questions asked.  at that time i wasnt aware of the issues but was happy they were repaired.

 

since then i avoid klf & kg like the plague, the kg 5.5 are nice speakers & im sure the klf's are nice too for the right price but, the poor cabinet design is enough of an issue to stay away from them. i prefer heritage & extended heritage models now or the epics which i loved & miss my cf4s.  the forte & chorus are very nice speakers & im sure you would like them much better than the klfs.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, EpicKlipschFan said:

 

this thread & the statements about cabinet issues is not about the epic series, its about the notorious cabinet failures on the KLF series & some KG series.  the majority of epics never had the problems of klf/kg, there may have been some small issues with early epics but i have never heard of it being anything like the klf/kgs.  in fact, except for 1 or 2 mentions of epic problems ive never heard of it at all with them, the  epics are built better/different than the klfs.

 

i owned a pair of kg 5.5 i bought used back in the 90's, (have owned many other pairs too) & when i auditioned them they sounded great but didnt crank them up at teh sellers house.  when i got them home & played some loud bass heavy music in them i instantly heard a loud vibration or rattle sound on bass beats, initially thought it was a bad woofer, so i took them to my local klipsch dealeer for repair expecting to pay for a new woofer or 2, right away the guy said it was the cabinets & they sent them to klipsch for repair, these were out of warranty & i said they were bought used, when they came back a few weeks later they were repaired free of charge & no questions asked.  at that time i wasnt aware of the issues but was happy they were repaired.

 

since then i avoid klf & kg like the plague, the kg 5.5 are nice speakers & im sure the klf's are nice too for the right price but, the poor cabinet design is enough of an issue to stay away from them. i prefer heritage & extended heritage models now or the epics which i loved & miss my cf4s.  the forte & chorus are very nice speakers & im sure you would like them much better than the klfs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

forgive me I had a senior moment combined with a brain freeze when I said Epic I was think KLF. The KLF cabinet carcass are nor assembled with hot melt but some other adhesive and the carcass is very strong as it is mdf to mdf. The problem as mentioned is with the no stick properties of the nice looking textured Melamine laminate used on the front and the back baffles. That was what the special hot melt adhesive was developed for and it worked well enough  but the company shipped a bad batch of the hot melt glue to Klipsch who then built a load of speakers with it and the rest is history.

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2 hours ago, moray james said:

 

 

forgive me I had a senior moment combined with a brain freeze when I said Epic I was think KLF. The KLF cabinet carcass are nor assembled with hot melt but some other adhesive and the carcass is very strong as it is mdf to mdf. The problem as mentioned is with the no stick properties of the nice looking textured Melamine laminate used on the front and the back baffles. That was what the special hot melt adhesive was developed for and it worked well enough  but the company shipped a bad batch of the hot melt glue to Klipsch who then built a load of speakers with it and the rest is history.

 

figured it was just a mistype.. everything you said pertained to the klf/kg but you said epic.  

 

my kg's came back from repair with tons of the hot glue just oozing out of all seams & corners, they made sure they never came loose again! 

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