Alexander Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Last night I installed the new Ciare woofers in to the klf-30's. For right now we just swapped them out with the oem drivers using the existing four screws and no gasket material to start. After several hours of run time there is more punch and smoothness. I admit I was concerned that they would make the speakers way to base heavy but at least for now this is not the case. In a few days we will seal up and add the full complement of screws. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Yeah, I got more punch and smoothness. Better overall clarity throughout the whole speaker. Congratulations! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 On 12/1/2018 at 4:34 PM, SWL said: Yeah, I got more punch and smoothness. Better overall clarity throughout the whole speaker. Congratulations! Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk yep!! very natural sound. effortless is a word that comes to mind for the entire klf-30 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 just a suggestion to make this thread useful to others, you might want to include the pertinent information and the specific model of Ciare woofer that you used. Congrats on your upgrade. Maybe Ciare have woofers that would drop into the KG series lots of folks looking for replacements there these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capo72 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 28 minutes ago, moray james said: just a suggestion to make this thread useful to others, you might want to include the pertinent information and the specific model of Ciare woofer that you used. Congrats on your upgrade. Maybe Ciare have woofers that would drop into the KG series lots of folks looking for replacements there these days. Good Point! I assume these are the Ciare HW321. That seems to be a recently popular replacement for the Klipsch K-31K. I have been wondering is this particular driver would be suitable in a Jubilee clone cabinet. My understanding is the K-31-K was used in the early production Jubilees. I'm not sure what the current production Jubilee uses for woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 4, 2018 Author Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 hours ago, capo72 said: Good Point! I assume these are the Ciare HW321. That seems to be a recently popular replacement for the Klipsch K-31K. I have been wondering is this particular driver would be suitable in a Jubilee clone cabinet. My understanding is the K-31-K was used in the early production Jubilees. I'm not sure what the current production Jubilee uses for woofers. Crites offers a replacement woof that is for both the Jubilees and klf-30 so I would think these HW321's would work for you. BTW, Ciare offers 10, 8 & 6.5 inch woofers too in the "HW" series so they may work out for the KG gang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 Here are the links to specs for each of the HW series woofers 12" http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw321-1.htm 10" http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw251n-1.htm 8" http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw205-1.htm 6.5" http://www.usspeaker.com/ciare-hw161n-1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Stop with the temptation. I need to stop building speakers. I have no more room left. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 That 12 inch woofer really isn't a replacement for the K-31 (used in the KLF30 or Jubilee bass bin). Compare the specs on efficiency, Fs, Qts and VAS. It may be a fine driver for other applications. Ported and lorn loaded cabinets are finicky and need to be designed with those parameters in mind. Besides, the K-31 woofer works quite nicely for the KLF30 and Jubilee. The woofer is not the weak link in those two systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, PrestonTom said: That 12 inch woofer really isn't a replacement for the K-31 (used in the KLF30 or Jubilee bass bin). Compare the specs on efficiency, Fs, Qts and VAS. It may be a fine driver for other applications. Ported and lorn loaded cabinets are finicky and need to be designed with those parameters in mind. Besides, the K-31 woofer works quite nicely for the KLF30 and Jubilee. The woofer is not the weak link in those two systems. What about the specs does not work as a replacement? Please be more specific. I can not find any real specs on a k31 to compare to. Ones I have found on the forum are incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 Years ago, Gil posted the JAES article on the Jubilee. Search for that. It lists all the T/S parameters. Those are correct measured specs for the K-31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, PrestonTom said: That 12 inch woofer really isn't a replacement for the K-31 (used in the KLF30 or Jubilee bass bin)………. I don't think anyone was saying it was a "direct replacement" for the oem k31k's but rather an option for someone looking to an upgrade to driver. With Crites woofers I am sure they are not "exact duplicates" of any of the oem woofers they were made to replace either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 If you guys have swapped them out and are enjoying the sound, then great. Consider that as a win. I take a different approach. For horn loaded cabinets and also for ported cabinets (like the Jubilee and the KLF 30), the geometry (throat, volume of the cabinet, volume behind the horn loaded driver, size of the port, high frequency extension, etc) are all dictated by woofer's T/S parameters. So whenever someone like me "designs" a cabinet, I look at these carefully and make the first round of adjustments and decisions accordingly. All this (plus measurements) will then go on and drive any changes or design of the crossover. By swapping out woofers, you guys are now making "design decisions" about the system. We simply approach this differently, however, I would be cautious about confusing the word "change" with the word "upgrade". Just my humble opinion. BTW, I have no doubt that your system does in fact sound different. If it is to your satisfaction, then enjoy them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 5, 2018 Author Share Posted December 5, 2018 This is true that it is a change, but as more people would have made this change and a consensus shows that the change was accepted as a positive one then it could be considered an upgrade yes? I am first to admit that I am not an engineer but so far no one has had a negative review of these woofers. Again, this woofer is not being labeled as a oem direct replacement driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 given the lower efficiency of all these drivers I would not choose to use one in any of their sizes in a Klipsch. For the Chorus or the Jub the only suitable driver that I know of to be a drop in is the unit that Bob Crites sells. My experience with most audiophiles saying that they cannot hear any difference or that something is better is not in my view a reliable recommendation. Buy it and try it, if you are happy great. For me I want to see at least a response curve of the driver that needs replacing and any possible alternate and I also want the efficiency to match, xmax can be greater but not less in most cases. After that I will listen and determine for myself it the fit is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 6, 2018 Author Share Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, moray james said: …... My experience with most audiophiles saying that they cannot hear any difference or that something is better is not in my view a reliable recommendation. …….. I guess some of us are just not as gifted as you are Mr. James, us not knowing what we may or may not like. EDIT: I want to apologize to Mr. James for my above remarks, Guilty of TUI (typing under the influence) I had a few too many Coke Zero's today and it can cloud my judgment. Edited December 6, 2018 by Alexander apologize to moray james 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Alexander said: I guess some of us are just not as gifted as you are Mr. James, us not knowing what we may or may not like. EDIT: I want to apologize to Mr. James for my above remarks, Guilty of TUI (typing under the influence) I had a few too many Coke Zero's today and it can cloud my judgment. everybody knows what they like. knowing or not knowing what one likes is not what I was talking about. I said that taking a recommendation (pertaining to sound quality) from most audiophiles is not a good bet. You only have to look to threads of which sounds best to see the vast contrast in opinions to see what I mean. Listening for changes and differences or for specific qualities in the sound is not the same thing as listening to music. I don't think I have gifted hearing. My hearing works well but it's not golden by my appraisal. I have simply spent a very long time working with my ears and making decisions with them so I have had to develop a sense of judgment based upon what I hear and I have had to learn to hone that to the point where it was reliable. I have helped to voice electronic components as well as loudspeakers and I work in cable development every day so I think I have had a lot of practice that's all, plus it is something I enjoy doing and I have gotten pretty good at it but I have met and worked with others who can hear better than I do. I made another comment that you glossed over, I said "buy it and try it and if you are happy great". That is important because your opinion is the only one which matters when you buy because you should like what you buy and it does not matter why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 20 hours ago, PrestonTom said: Years ago, Gil posted the JAES article on the Jubilee. Search for that. It lists all the T/S parameters. Those are correct measured specs for the K-31 Based on what I was able to find out about the parameters in that article, the KLF-30 box is quite undersized for k-31 woofers Based on the FS and VAS along with sensitivity I remembered, the box was not optimal other than for aesthetics if you wanted the best out of them. Put that together with the Ciare woofers and which is better for anyone's end game? I don't know because I haven't heard them but give the k-31s some breathing room and I bet they would do better. Based on the SW321 parameters, they wouldn't be much farther off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 5:44 AM, pzannucci said: Based on what I was able to find out about the parameters in that article, the KLF-30 box is quite undersized for k-31 woofers Based on the FS and VAS along with sensitivity I remembered, the box was not optimal other than for aesthetics if you wanted the best out of them. There's a reason why many prefer the bass output of the KLF-20 over the 30 and why the frequency extension is lower on the 20s. Woofers used vs. cabinets used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted December 9, 2018 Author Share Posted December 9, 2018 After all that has been said I (as others) have found that the Ciare HW321 woofers sound better regardless of what specs may be compared to the oem's they replace. An interesting interview I stole from another post here, sort of shows the point that is trying to be made that what you hear is what really counts. https://youtu.be/JW7fg_yfza4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.