Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

[JohnA]

Come on guys,  lighten up!  He's saying, in effect, you don't have to buy McIntosh electronics in the beginning.  Buy Klipsch instead of Blose and pair them with Yamaha instead of Conrad-Johnson.  Excellent advice.
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[JDJohnson]

2 hours ago, JohnA said:

Come on guys,  lighten up!  He's saying, in effect, you don't have to buy McIntosh electronics in the beginning.  Buy Klipsch instead of Blose and pair them with Yamaha instead of Conrad-Johnson.  Excellent advice.
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I agree with JohnA. 

 

Speakers have the biggest influence on a system. Good speakers can sound good wired into a low budget systems. For another example, I recently bought a used pair of Wharfedale Emerald EM 99 MK IV speakers and wired them into an old low cost stereo receiver and was blown away by how great it sounded! I knew how important speakers are, but that really demonstrated how important to me. 

 

[Shakeydeal]

The "eating popcorn" smiley isn't sufficient here. Why dont we have a "nothing to see here, who gives a s%&t anyway" smiley?..... yawn.....

[Edgar]

14 hours ago, Deang said:

Based on the outcome, my advice would be for beginners to take a hard look at the Berhinger amps, which by the way actually have a pretty good reputation. Notice that they did not use a POS low tier HT receiver.

 

The interesting thing here is that Behringer has a "pretty good reputation" in the audiophile market, but let's call it a "less than stellar" reputation in the pro audio market.

[windashine]

22 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Both Systems were played through ATC SCM 12 passive Studio Monitor speakers connected w/ Tempflex speaker Cables

 

. o O (Monkey Coffins)

… o O (in summary... if color choices were available, all 38 reviewers would drive purple car's)

[wvu80]

I thought the study was pretty good, and 38 subjects was a solid number.  This was not a scientific study and most A/B audio results I've seen came from groups of ten or less.

 

I know how to put together a scientifically valid study and the variables for comparing speakers are enormous!  Plus you have to train your subjects, make sure they all have similar hearing, you need males/females, you need a test group and a control group and at least 1000 people, do a lot of math, yada yada yada.

 

And even after all that the study might only be valid for those particular speakers and audio equipment.

 

To me, they are interesting but not always conclusive or generalizable.  I take those kind of studies for what they're worth. 

[Don Richard]

3 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

The interesting thing here is that Behringer has a "pretty good reputation" in the audiophile market, but let's call it a "less than stellar" reputation in the pro audio market.

 

The Behringer X32 digital mixer is widely used for sound reinforcement and is rider-acceptable for "B" and "C" level acts.

 

The Behringer EP series amps are QSC knockoffs and are used for sound reinforcement. Some professionals say they are not as reliable as the QSC amps they copy.

 

I have never seen an A500 used in a pro application by anyone.

[Deang]

11 hours ago, JohnA said:

Come on guys,  lighten up!  He's saying, in effect, you don't have to buy McIntosh electronics in the beginning.  Buy Klipsch instead of Blose and pair them with Yamaha instead of Conrad-Johnson.  Excellent advice.
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I don't agree. That's not what he's saying. He's saying that from the perspective of sound, everything sounds the same.

 

 

[Deang]

Behringer amps are don't appear to be robust enough for road work and/or sustained high output -- but for home use, they are probably a better choice than an entry level receiver with a weak power supply section.

 

If a QSC PLX knockoff, that would be quite an accomplishment at the prices they are offered at. I think the PLX stuff sounds outstanding. 

[Khornukopia]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 8:31 AM, ODS123 said:

..Spend the bulk of your money were it matters most: your speakers.

 

That is good advice for beginners.

[Ski Bum]

1 minute ago, Deang said:

I don't agree. That's not what he's saying. He's saying that from the perspective of sound, everything sounds the same.

 

 

Even the "amps sound the same" claim comes with a bunch of qualifiers, which @ODS123 at least touched on.  By ignoring those conditions, all you're doing is engaging in a straw man fallacy in some stubborn attempt to win an argument. 

 

Someone please bring an ABX device to Hope, put your own golden ears and cherished beliefs to a real test.  A single completed pass is worth a thousand arm-chair quarterbacks.

 

 

[ODS123]

 

1 hour ago, Deang said:

...That's not what he's saying. He's saying that from the perspective of sound, everything sounds the same.

 

I never said that.  I said there are no meaningful audible differences between modern day amps that are engineered to be linear and are operated within their design limits.

As for the test, I'll say one more time that although it falls short of perfect, it’s refreshing to learn of audiophiles who made an honest effort to validity test what they hear.

 

All the complaints about the structure of the test reminds me of friends who shy away from FDA approved medications because of possible side effects, yet have no problem gobbling daily handfuls of nutritional supplements which are legally marketed without ANY evidence of safety, efficacy, potency or purity.

[Deang]

5 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

I never said that.  I said there are no meaningful audible differences between modern day amps that are engineered to be linear and are operated within their design limits.

 

To some of us, any and all differences (regardless of how small) are meaningful.

 

btw, tube amps have a higher source impedance than solid state amps, which means the bass isn’t quite as tight. The difference in sound has nothing to with distortion, unless the amplifier is being run outside of it’s established operating parameters.

[Deang]

5 hours ago, Ski Bum said:

Even the "amps sound the same" claim comes with a bunch of qualifiers, which @ODS123 at least touched on.  By ignoring those conditions, all you're doing is engaging in a straw man fallacy in some stubborn attempt to win an argument. 

 

Someone please bring an ABX device to Hope, put your own golden ears and cherished beliefs to a real test.  A single completed pass is worth a thousand arm-chair quarterbacks.

Maybe go into the other threads and read his comments?

 

Yes, bring the damned switcher. I can’t think of a better environment to try it. Everyone half drunk, with a gawdawful noise floor - and stressed to max. 

[Deang]

22 hours ago, ODS123 said:

Hmm.. I'm surprised you wouldn't find it a bit eye-brow raising that in a comparison of a $260 to an $8000 audio system 28 of 38 people either preferred the $260 system OR heard no difference.

More like eyebrow scrunching. 🙂

 

I’ve always wanted a pair of ATC monitors, so I sure can’t blame the speakers.

[jason str]

5 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

 

I never said that.  I said there are no meaningful audible differences between modern day amps that are engineered to be linear and are operated within their design limits.

As for the test, I'll say one more time that although it falls short of perfect, it’s refreshing to learn of audiophiles who made an honest effort to validity test what they hear.

 

All the complaints about the structure of the test reminds me of friends who shy away from FDA approved medications because of possible side effects, yet have no problem gobbling daily handfuls of nutritional supplements which are legally marketed without ANY evidence of safety, efficacy, potency or purity.

 

Maybe if you have some really cheap speakers you may not hear much difference, otherwise i call bullshit on this all amplifiers sound the same nonsense.

[MEH Synergy]

5 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Maybe if you have some really cheap speakers you may not hear much difference, otherwise i call bullshit on this all amplifiers sound the same nonsense.

Same 

[Marvel]

Behringer has been improving their products ever since they acquired Midas and Klark Teknik in 2009. I've always stayed away from their products, but recently bought an 18 input interface for my audio recording rig and it is really a solid piece of gear.

 

Bruce

[jimjimbo]

37 minutes ago, Deang said:

Someone please bring an ABX device to Hope

Wouldn't that be fun?

[Dave A]

On 12/18/2018 at 4:50 PM, Westcoastdrums said:

Those remaining 10 are just deaf. They thought they could hear, but they can’t. We can only pity them."

What did you say I can't hear you?  🤣