ODS123 Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 29 minutes ago, Tizman said: He has too much money invested in his Mac, and doesn’t want to try anything new based on hearing from others with different experiences. Not true. I've had many other amps over the past 30 years. NAD 7250PE; B&K Pro-10mc/202+ pre/amp combo; Bryston BP25/3BSST pre/amp combo; PeachTree NOVA Integrated; NAD 375BEE Integrated, and finally the McIntosh. And several A/V receivers along the way. I've also spent countless hours - usually when researching my next amp purchase - listening to Class A S/S amps and Tube amps, including Conrad Johnson, Cary, McIntosh and Audio Research. Throughout I have found that when I'm not told which is playing, differences b/w amps essentially disappear. The Richard Clark $10,000 Challenge shows that I'm not alone. As for my hearing: It measures very well and I have a keen ear for musical nuance honed from years of playing and enjoying live and often unamplified music. As for "wants to find things online and refer to them here to support his sizeable investment." How exactly? How does telling beginners to "consider allocating most of your system funds toward speakers b/c most evidence suggests that differences b/w modern amps are largely inaudible" support my decision to spend lavishly on an amp?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said: There was never any MDF in Hope while Paul Klipsch was the owner. None of that came about until AFTER he sold the company. Considering PWK's lowly opinion of pricey cables, interconnects and deep skepticism of unsubstantiated claims regarding audible improvements, I suspect he'd blanch at the notion that plywood is audibly better sounding than MDF. ..More durable for road shows and hauling about? Perhaps. ..But better sounding? I doubt it. Which has been my point from all but the beginning of this whole MDF discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, ODS123 said: Considering PWK's lowly opinion of pricey cables, interconnects and deep skepticism of unsubstantiated claims regarding audible improvements, I suspect he'd blanch at the notion that plywood is audibly better sounding than MDF. ..More durable for road shows and hauling about? Perhaps. ..But better sounding? I doubt it. Which has been my point from all but the beginning of this whole MDF discussion. My money is on he probably relied on his experiences in cabinet construction and took pride in using the best materials for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 2 hours ago, ODS123 said: Do you mind? Sarcasm is fine so long as you're adding SOMETHING audio-related to the discussion. But comments such as this - and those recently from Jason and JimJimbo add precisely zero. I doubt any beginners visiting this thread hoping to better understand the Objectivist and Subjectivist view of audio gear is finding your comments a good refection on the Subjectivist opinion or audiophiles in general. Be snarky if you want, but be pertinent please. "Objectivist and Subjectivist"🤣. This is better than the "Onion" OD. I like my bagels with Habenero jelly. Generally I just splash a hint of microwave on them and go. But to make it relevant it is the sound of bursting molecules as they rotate I enjoy the most. The hot spots as they circle produce the most sound and you can even pick out where they come from if you stand in the sweet spot. I also like fancy knobs on my microwave and I love to play with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 2 hours ago, jimjimbo said: The easiest way to lose readers here is to write as though you know more than others on this forum who have worked for Klipsch, owned Klipsch for decades, and have experimented with virtually every kind of amplifier, pre-amplifier and source imaginable, and then tell them they are wrong and you are right.... But hey, if you want to continue with that line, good luck with that. Absolute truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 ODS123: Did you use any of those amps with your current Klipsch speakers? Are any of those amps SET amps? Have you heard a SET amp on your current Klipsch speakers? If not, please have a look at the last sentence in my last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, jason str said: My money is on he probably relied on his experiences in cabinet construction and took pride in using the best materials for the job. Thumbs up for this... I have never contemplated putting screws into the edge of 1/2 inch mdf, no matter what grade it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, ODS123 said: Considering PWK's lowly opinion of pricey cables, interconnects and deep skepticism of unsubstantiated claims regarding audible improvements, I suspect he'd blanch at the notion that plywood is audibly better sounding than MDF. ..More durable for road shows and hauling about? Perhaps. ..But better sounding? I doubt it. Which has been my point from all but the beginning of this whole MDF discussion. MDF was an option that Klipsch chose not to use on the Heritage speakers while PWK still ran the joint. Perhaps he had a massive stock of Baltic birch, but I doubt that was the reason. He also had a distinct preference for tube audio equipment long after the 1st Germanium transistors arrived on the scene. Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, Wolfbane said: MDF was an option that Klipsch chose not to use on the Heritage speakers while PWK still ran the joint. Perhaps he had a massive stock of Baltic birch, but I doubt that was the reason. He also had a distinct preference for tube audio equipment long after the 1st Germanium transistors arrived on the scene. Wb Most of the ply used was furniture grade 5 & 7 ply Birch, Douglas fir was used if i recall along with veneered lumber core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 PWK never fails to deliver sound opinions and advice. And he preferred tube amps too! One should always carefully consider the opinions on upstream components (and preferred materials) of the original designer. Unless you already know everything of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 And yet today they use MDF, so perhaps MDF has changed or their opinion of it. I doubt it's to save cost. Though cheaper per sheet, MDF is considerably heavier hence probably more expensive to ship. My hunch: MDF is less resonant, easier to veneer and more than strong enough for speakers not intended for outdoor use. This is probably why ALL speaker companies I can think of including: Dynaudio, Vandersteen, KEF, PSB, JBL, etc... and so on use MDF rather than ply. The only time a speaker company boasts of using something different, it's some sort of resin. Each of these companies is always looking for some bragging right over a competitor; if a few extra dollars spent on Ply would give them that, they would surely seize it, particularly in their pricier lines were a few extra dollars in material costs is justified if it yields just a few more sales. Yet, the don't , I suspect, b/c it doesn't really offer any advantage for indoor speakers. As for SET amps, as I've already stated. I'll pass, I want a linear amp. If/ when I want to season to taste, I'll use my tone controls, or if need be, get an equalizer. I can appreciate how the glow of the filaments has a seductive quality but the age of tubes has long passed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 5 hours ago, richieb said: === following this thread afar, way far, I do believe you have just penned the next best thread topic to the ever popular CC&C thread — “Nonsense And Drivel” . And may I begin - — advice for audio enthusiasts - keep it to yourself Ha Ha I am a little slow I guess. Took me bit to realize you had actually started a thread on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 When the La Scala II was being designed, two prototype pairs were built, one pair of plywood and one pair of MDF. After listening tests, the MDF LaScala IIs were found to sound better than the plywood ones, so that’s the material the company went with. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 25 minutes ago, Islander said: When the La Scala II was being designed, two prototype pairs were built, one pair of plywood and one pair of MDF. After listening tests, the MDF LaScala IIs were found to sound better than the plywood ones, so that’s the material the company went with. Because the sides went from 3/4" ply to 1" MDF helping that bass bin resonance at higher volumes. 1" of hardwood ply or 1" 13 ply BB would repair that issue just as well. My set is braced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 46 minutes ago, ODS123 said: I can appreciate how the glow of the filaments has a seductive quality but the age of tubes has long passed. My tube amplifiers filiments can't be seen at all in daylight and barely are visible at night. The preamp is in a case so you can't see those either. I don't usually Watch my gear while listening to music. Linear tube amps can/are being made. Mine probably are not, but the music sounds great through what I have. The tube age never totally went away, so it can't have passed yet. Western Electric is finishing the setup to continue production of their 300B vacuum tube. One of the most linear devices made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 MDF, but I still want a pair. They are mighty pretty. My 76 La Scalas are breathtakingly dynamic and real sounding. Especially with nice SET amp. Something that has to be heard to be understood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 My very first Klipsch was two sets of La Scalas I picked up next to Orlando. One AA and one AL and I was doomed from then on. Sold them off when I got a one piece fiberglass with trim set of LSI's. Little did I know it was an incurable condition I had acquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Marvel: Ah 300Bs. A very linear tube. I'm working on a 300B amp right now. The Arthur Loesch Legacy amp. It's supposed to be very linear. I hope I like it when it's done because it's going to have around $2500 in parts in it. If I don't, I can always pick up a 1980's Kenwood or JVC receiver. They have very low THD, so they will sound good for sure. Also, convenient tone controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 54 minutes ago, Islander said: When the La Scala II was being designed, two prototype pairs were built, one pair of plywood and one pair of MDF. After listening tests, the MDF LaScala IIs were found to sound better than the plywood ones, so that’s the material the company went with. As suspected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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