Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

[ODS123]

9 hours ago, Dave A said:

 This thread just needs to end although it has been amusing at times. Happy New years everyone.

 

News flash:  You can simply opt out of the discussion.  Anyone who finds nothing of value from this thread should stop participating.

[Deang]

Right, because the folks at Best Buy or wherever are going to be all in to accommodate a person using that method of purchasing. 

 

“I need to take these thing home to do a DBT”.

 

or

 

”You got a few a hours, I need to DBT these pieces, and btw, could you clear the store out for me - it’s a little loud in here.”

[Deang]

Trust me, the only value in this thread is watching you make an *** out of yourself. 

[Deang]

Of course you’re confused Zen - I would expect no less from you. 

[Zen Traveler]

Just now, Deang said:

Of course you’re confused Zen - I would expect no less from you. 

Fwiw, I've never understood your animosity. 

[TubeHiFiNut]

15 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Exactly.  ..And though I'm not particularly interested in tube amps any longer, beginners can certainly include tube amps in the mix as they as they go out and make  BLINDED, and VOLUME MATCHED comparisons b/w amps and AVRs.

 

And the misinformation just keeps rolling. 

 

Once again, DBT tests may work for some things but not for Audio.

[MEH Synergy]

I think I need to go back to page one and do a little reading. Would be nice to have this thread go in a useful direction as it is so titled.   

[Zen Traveler]

1 minute ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

Once again, DBT tests may work for some things but not for Audio.

What I have found is there is a lot of psychology, as well as salesmanship when it comes to audio. 

[Deang]

Towards him, you, or both?

 

People who claim to not have experience with something, yet feel compelled to comment authoritatively on the subject. Or worse yet, claim to have experience, but aren’t intelligent enough to not leave clues clearly showing they have no idea what they’re talking about. 

[MEH Synergy]

Oh OK.   I take that back.  Refresher helped there.  The ONLY thing I agree with OP on is the bulk of you budget should be spent on speakers.   You can get decent electronics at first with plans on upgrading as budget permits.  Over the years I have learned that everything In the audio chain matters, yet some component synergy or lack thereof is much more notable than others.  

[Deang]

7 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

What I have found is there is a lot of psychology, as well as salesmanship when it comes to audio. 

That applies to everything. Was that supposed to be revelatory?

[Deang]

5 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Oh OK.   I take that back.  Refresher helped there.  The ONLY thing I agree with OP on is the bulk of you budget should be spent on speakers.   You can get decent electronics at first with plans on upgrading as budget permits.  Over the years I have learned that everything In the audio chain matters, yet some component synergy or lack thereof is much more notable than others.  

Like I said on the previous page, any moron getting into this hobby already knows that. What, does anyone here actually think a new person comes into this totally blind, and decides to spend $3000 on a pair of speakers and $7000 on an integrated amp because it has a mono switch and a balance control- that’s crazy talk!!

[MEH Synergy]

You would be surprised sir.   I have had many a man purchase pieces of gear from me that certainly weren't cheap and they were clearly clueless and asked my permission to keep in contact and ask me many questions or my opinion over a period of time.   I certainly don't claim to be an expert, but am happy to share my experiences with others as others have doen with me.  

[Deang]

Yes, there are people out there who don’t do their homework, but most do. Some might end up with more AVR or amp/processor than they need - but what is inherently bad about that? While not always true, there is strong correlation between cost and quality. 

 

You could buy a really nice set of speakers, and then find your budget AVR shutting down because it has a weak power supply incapable of handling low impedance - or sustained live level listening. 

 

This is the kind of advice beginners need: how to navigate the pitfalls. 

 

Telling them that most stuff sounds basically the same isn’t really all that helpful. Saying it a 1000 times doesn’t make it anymore helpful (or necessarily true). 

[MEH Synergy]

"Telling them that most stuff sounds basically the same isn’t really all that helpful. Saying it a 1000 times doesn’t make it anymore helpful (or necessarily true). " 

 

😂

[Zen Traveler]

36 minutes ago, Deang said:

You could buy a really nice set of speakers, and then find your budget AVR shutting down because it has a weak power supply incapable of handling low impedance - or sustained live level listening. 

 

This is the kind of advice beginners need: how to navigate the pitfalls.

I totally agree with the above!

Quote

 

Telling them that most stuff sounds basically the same isn’t really all that helpful. Saying it a 1000 times doesn’t make it anymore helpful (or necessarily true). 

On that note, Imo, most beginners hearing it once would be enough. As you state above, what they really need to be concerned with is providing enough power to drive their system at the SPL they want with sufficient headroom. Again, put a good processor in the mix and set everything up properly they should be good to go.

[ODS123]

25 minutes ago, Deang said:

 

Telling them that most stuff sounds basically the same isn’t really all that helpful. Saying it a 1000 times doesn’t make it anymore helpful (or necessarily true). 

 

Not everything... Just modern day amplifiers, cd-players and cables.   Audible differences b/w speakers are definitely audible.

 

And how about PWK?  Where do you think he'd stand on this??

 

28 minutes ago, Deang said:

You could buy a really nice set of speakers, and then find your budget AVR shutting down because it has a weak power supply incapable of handling low impedance - or sustained live level listening. 

 

I've never advocated picking an AVR that is underpowered for it's intended application.   Indeed, I suggested picking an amp or AVR that is cable of playing their chosen speakers at desired SPLs.  AND to chose an amp/AVR that has the functionality you desire.  For me, that includes tone controls, balance control, a mono function, and (nice, but less important) the ability to volume level all inputs

[jason str]

4 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Not everything... Just modern day amplifiers, cd-players and cables.   Audible differences b/w speakers are definitely audible.

 

And how about PWK?  Where do you think he'd stand on this??

 

 

I've never advocated picking an AVR that is underpowered for it's intended application.   Indeed, I suggested picking an amp or AVR that is cable of playing their chosen speakers at desired SPLs.  AND to chose an amp/AVR that has the functionality you desire.  For me, that includes tone controls, balance control, a mono function, and (nice, but less important) the ability to volume level all inputs

 

I have 3 different model Sony ES CD players and all sound different, so even different models from the same manufacturer sound different.

 

Same goes for every other piece of audio equipment i have owned, all had a signature sound of their own.

[ODS123]

1 hour ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

 

And the misinformation just keeps rolling. 

 

Once again, DBT tests may work for some things but not for Audio.

 

Simply not true.  I'll grant that it's not easy, but certainly possible.   

 

And no need to let the challenges of a DBT stand in the way of using some sort of bias controls.  For example, simple volume matching during comparisons would be useful.  And a go a step further and have a friend/ family member change speaker cables around while you leave the room, then power up and return the playing amp to the same volume level.  This simple exercise would be very eye-opening for gold-eared audiophiles.  Yet... people resist.  They'd rather claim to be able to hear huge, meaningful differences b/w amps.

 

As for speaker/ interconnect cables:  I've suggested countless times that people simply connect a pricey one to one channel, a cheap to the other than switch back and forth using the balance control (assuming you have one) while listening to a mono recording.  Are those differences b/w the pricey and generic cabling still audible??

 

 

 

 

[Dave A]

Fixed for Jason