Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

[ODS123]

3 minutes ago, Dave A said:

You done went an made ODS NPC right mad Dean. Now you get to hear about it for the next 6 pages.



 

Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not mad.   ...😀 see?!

 

[Deang]

Well yeah, the old stuff could be especially brutal with Heritage. Add Crown 150 to that list - just gawd awful. The currently available Crown Xti series is also terrible sounding.

 

You could try a Dayton Audio apa150. It has 150wpc and a volume control knob. It costs around $150, and you have 45 days to return it. It gets good reviews, but I thought it sounded terrible on my LaScalas. I took it back after two days.

 

The Cornwall III may be more forgiving than the vintage Heritage stuff, which is very possible.

[pzannucci]

1 minute ago, ODS123 said:

 

I mean something currently available .   Again, a present day S/S amp, stereo receiver, or AVR renowned for sounding horrendous. 

Didn't like the xti-1000 with any speakers I had (though a lot of people use them).  A lot of grain in the mids and treble.  Might just have been me...  Sold it not long after I first plugged it in.

[jason str]

6 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

I mean something currently available .   Again, a present day S/S amp, stereo receiver, or AVR renowned for sounding horrendous. 

 

If you really want a minimum $$ test pick up any new Sony receiver and compare an updated Marantz 22 series,HK 430 or if you need something new try the NAD C316 integrated and throw some power to them.

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

All of my systems are built synergistically to best connect me to the music.

I don't believe we have any fundamental disagreements at all. SYNERGY is the key word here, with the ROOM being as important as the speaker. A well balanced room can't make a bad speaker sound good, but a good speaker can sound bad in a bad room...............at least not as good as in a good room. Pretty much BOTH of those things are more important than the electronics once an acceptable level has been achieved there.

 

On the digital front, the "industry standard" chipset for D/A conversion comes from ESS in their Sabre line. It's used in many "high end" DACs, and it's built into my Yamaha Pre Pro, as it was in my Oppo 83 SE. I have a friend who got a $19,000 DAC and I fail to see where that was money well spent vs. his former $3,000 DAC, although he claims to hear the difference, I do not. Maybe it's because I can't afford either one, I dunno. I just can't afford to play in THAT sand box!

 

That being said, I do like the sound of his Award Winning OB speakers as much as I like horns. He prefer's the 3D aspect of the sound while I prefer the "jump from your seat" dynamics that only HORNS can render. Tomato tomahto.

 

Either way, it's the MUSIC that matters, and my father-in-law (a great Tenor himself) used to get tears in his eyes listening to Mario Lanza on his Bose Table Radio.

 

So basically we all hear a bit differently no matter what.

 

 

 

 

[Deang]

First it's diminishing returns, and then it's no returns.

[ClaudeJ1]

2 hours ago, Don Richard said:

That is a true statement for any properly designed DBT. I actually participated in the design and construction of equipment used in an ABX/DBT for a university research project. I can assure you that bias removal was a goal in the method we employed.

 

 

You were the one who called ABX/DBT a religion and, as far as that goes, you are the one who is wrong. It is a testing protocol totally without supernatural overtones. (Disclaimer: when properly designed.)

Like I said before, those who put down ABX testing without ever trying it PROPERLY simply do not want their quasi-religious EMOTIONAL testing rendered invalid in comparison. IOW, they can't handle the TRUTH.

[TubeHiFiNut]

12 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Never had that one, but they don't all sound the same.  You might want to question things that you are told.

This was way back when the whole ABX/DBT assertions were first being put out and many of the proponents asserted that all amps that measure within certain parameters did indeed "sound the same".

[Deang]

Oh shut up Claude. :-)

[oldtimer]

It was the myth of fingerprints....

[ODS123]

32 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

If you really want a minimum $$ test pick up any new Sony receiver and compare an updated Marantz 22 series,HK 430 or if you need something new try the NAD C316 integrated and throw some power to them.

 

I'm not sure I understand Jason.  I'd consider buying ONE amp/receiver/ AVR to compare w/ my McIntosh MA6600.  Can you suggest a model number?

[Don Richard]

1 hour ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

The fervor with which DBT/ABX proponents proselytize can easily be described as an almost religious fervor.

 

THAT IS MY OPINION! Or is anyone who disagrees with you no longer entitled to an opinion?

 

DBT/ABX is far from settled science so you are also doing nothing more than stating your OPINION. And you are very welcome to that opinion.

 

But you are 100% NOT WELCOME to dismiss my opinion as "wrong" when your only retort is to restate your own opinion.

 

And that, kind sir, is my opinion.

 

It is very telling that you rather emotionally responded by on-line screaming "MY OPINION" and "100% NOT WELCOME" without knowing anything about the DBT that I was involved with. This test did not involve audio at all. It was a test to determine the efficacy of pain killing drugs. The bias removal was necessary because the test subjects could not communicate with the testers, and the testers' biases concerning the drugs that were being evaluated, favorable or unfavorable, had to be filtered out. The reason for the necessity of these controls, and the reason for the test subjects' inability  to communicate with the testers was because the test subjects were horses.

 

The tests consisted of putting a horse in a stall and hooking up a polygraph to the horse. A pinpoint beam of light was directed to a spot on the horse's leg so that it burned the horse. When the polygraph indicated that the horse was stressed, the time that the light was on was recorded. Varying dosages of the drug under test were administered and the stress test was repeated. The effectiveness of the drugs was determined by the increased time that the horse could be burned before showing stress.

 

This test was much more involved than an audio ABX/DBT where the test subject only has to listen then answer the question, "Do you hear a difference"

 

Your statement that ABX/DBT being "far from settled science" is ridiculous. It is a valuable tool used every day by scientists to make unbiased determinations in many fields of endeavor, audio included. Dismissing a scientific test because you don't understand it simply means that you are ignorant, and that's not my opinion, that's a fact.😁

[Deang]

@ODS123 Please read the responses. Jason gave you two options 1) any new Sony receiver, and 2) NAD C316

 

I suggested a Dayton Audio apa150.

 

And if you want to be truly miserable, you can also try a Crown XTi 1000.

[Deang]

 

6 minutes ago, Don Richard said:

A pinpoint beam of light was directed to a spot on the horse's leg so that it burned the horse. When the polygraph indicated that the horse was stressed ...

 

That's the problem with you DBT guys, you're always thinking of new ways to torment us.

[jason str]

16 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

I'm not sure I understand Jason.  I'd consider buying ONE amp/receiver/ AVR to compare w/ my McIntosh MA6600.  Can you suggest a model number?

 

If you need something to compare pick up a base Sherwood or Sony for comparison.

 

I have never heard the MA6600 but hope its been serviced by a qualified technician to assure its up to standards.

[jason str]

7 minutes ago, Deang said:

@ODS123 Please the responses. Jason gave you two options 1) any new Sony receiver, and 2) NAD C316

 

I suggested a Dayton Audio apa150.

 

I was thinking of comparing the two actually but whatever works.

[Deang]

I like Don's idea of loading someone up on pain killers, and then burning a hole in their leg while they're listening. Might as well make it interesting.

[pzannucci]

1 minute ago, jason str said:

 

I was thinking of comparing the two actually but whatever works.

And what is the comparison supposed to yield?  All amps sound the same?

Sony's have been quite strident and grating in my previous experience.  Not warm and comfy.

[Don Richard]

Just now, Deang said:

I like the idea of burning a hole in someone's leg while they're listening. Might as well make it interesting.

 

If you were a horse, I know the drugs that would make the experience enjoyable😈

[Deang]

For reasons I will never understand, some people just don't seem to hear that etched out fingernails across the chalkboard thing. What a gift.