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Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club


ODS123

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3 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

And what is the comparison supposed to yield?  All amps sound the same?

Sony's have been quite strident and grating in my previous experience.  Not warm and comfy.

 

Exactly what i was going for, Sony grain and lifelessness and the NAD leans toward the warm side for an example of different sounding units.

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6 minutes ago, Deang said:

I like Don's idea of loading someone up on pain killers, and then burning a hole in their leg while they're listening. Might as well make it interesting.

 

I prefer liquor & weed but whatever floats your boat. I will pass on the burning hole.:unsure2:

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3 hours ago, Deang said:
4 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

...I still contend a lot of folks get "bugs" in their ear that psychologically influences what they are hearing.  The best anecdote to exemplify this is how salesman in the past (and folks on the internet since) who didn't offer Klipsch speakers would say, "I don't like' 'em because they are bright, real ear-bleeders." I am positive that leaves an impression on the newbie and shapes what they are considering on purchasing.

Compared to most other loudspeakers, Klipsch speakers do sound "bright", and with cheap gear and/or lack of attention to setup and room -- will absolutely shred your hearing. 

Sure. I prefer to call it "clearer/cleaner in the upper frequencies," and agree what you say about lower models getting "ear-bleeding" bright. My point was that salesmen used that as a tool to disparage ALL Klipsch speakers and folks will gravitate to the negative characteristic when they compare other speakers. Direct Radiating speakers could be described as "like a blanket has been thrown over them," and that is usually the comeback by Klipsch aficionados. There is no doubt people can prefer different types of speakers but having studied this phenomena feel a lot of beginners can/are swayed by the first salesperson they talk to or online comment they see in that regard. 

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26 minutes ago, Deang said:

@ODS123 Please read the responses. Jason gave you two options 1) any new Sony receiver, and 2) NAD C316

 

I suggested a Dayton Audio apa150.

 

And if you want to be truly miserable, you can also try a Crown XTi 1000.

 

Whatever I buy may end up w/ one of my sons.  The Dayton doesn't have a balance control and one of the users complained of a volume imbalance until the knob was 12 0'clock.  ..Can't abide that.

 

So i may go with a Sony receiver or AVR.  Can anyone suggest a specific model - one they've heard and can attest is simply awful sounding??  ..Preferably w/ Klipsch?

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3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Vocals are one of the best ways to test loudspeaker performance, especially FEMALE vocals, where male ears are most sensitive...............there's a real life pun in there somewhere. LOL

Yep! Female voices was something I was keen to pay attention to because I really dig chicks singing to me. My response to Dean above mentioned brightness, but sibilance was something I had to get my head around and experiment with if I was hearing it or imagining it with different songs and different systems.

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2 hours ago, Tizman said:
3 hours ago, Deang said:

I've also compared a $40 DVD player to a $400 Oppo. This was back in the early 2000s. It was ugly.

The differences between different models of CD/‘DVD  players are also audible to me.

If you are talking about using the analog imputes you guys may have something but Multichannel music/Movies in the age of HDMI means the player is no longer doing the decoding.

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46 minutes ago, Don Richard said:

 

It is very telling that you rather emotionally responded by on-line screaming "MY OPINION" and "100% NOT WELCOME" without knowing anything about the DBT that I was involved with. This test did not involve audio at all. It was a test to determine the efficacy of pain killing drugs. The bias removal was necessary because the test subjects could not communicate with the testers, and the testers' biases concerning the drugs that were being evaluated, favorable or unfavorable, had to be filtered out. The reason for the necessity of these controls, and the reason for the test subjects' inability  to communicate with the testers was because the test subjects were horses.

 

The tests consisted of putting a horse in a stall and hooking up a polygraph to the horse. A pinpoint beam of light was directed to a spot on the horse's leg so that it burned the horse. When the polygraph indicated that the horse was stressed, the time that the light was on was recorded. Varying dosages of the drug under test were administered and the stress test was repeated. The effectiveness of the drugs was determined by the increased time that the horse could be burned before showing stress.

 

This test was much more involved than an audio ABX/DBT where the test subject only has to listen then answer the question, "Do you hear a difference"

 

Your statement that ABX/DBT being "far from settled science" is ridiculous. It is a valuable tool used every day by scientists to make unbiased determinations in many fields of endeavor, audio included. Dismissing a scientific test because you don't understand it simply means that you are ignorant, and that's not my opinion, that's a fact.😁

Really? This is your "gotcha"?

 

We are discussing the efficacy of ABX/DBT testing in audio. A DBT for pharmaceuticals is much different than a DBT for audio.

 

You state your opinion as fact. I don't care how many times you state it, it's still your opinion.

 

You have your opinion on this matter and I have mine. It's OK if we don't agree. The trick is to do so with mutual respect.

 

I can just as easily say "no, it's you who are wrong". Where does that get us?

 

YMMV.....

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14 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Whatever I buy may end up w/ one of my sons.  The Dayton doesn't have a balance control and one of the users complained of a volume imbalance until the knob was 12 0'clock.  ..Can't abide that.

 

So i may go with a Sony receiver or AVR.  Can anyone suggest a specific model - one they've heard and can attest is simply awful sounding??  ..Preferably w/ Klipsch?

 

I gave 2 lousy sounding receivers in my previous post, choose your weapon.

 

The Sherwood was hooked up to Altec Valencia's for some testing.

 

That Sony to Forte.

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

If you are talking about using the analog imputes you guys may have something but Multichannel music/Movies in the age of HDMI means the player is no longer doing the decoding.

Exactly, which is why I only use HDMI or Optical inputs on my Yamaha Pre Pro for 2.2 as well as 7.2

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@ODS123 You said something that would shred the ears and inexpensive. I made a recommendation - and you complain about the lack of a balance knob!? The idea was to listen and send it back. 

 

“Please recommend something that sounds like shit that I can pass on to my kid.”

 

I’m calling Child Protective Services. 

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Just now, oldtimer said:

You sound like an idiot with that post.

 

Just now, oldtimer said:

You sound like an idiot with that post.

 

Just now, oldtimer said:

You sound like an idiot with that post.

You must be a Democrat, since they always resort to name calling instead of contributing data. It was a JOKE, dude!

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58 minutes ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

A DBT for pharmaceuticals is much different than a DBT for audio.

 

Obviously, but the goal should still be to arrive at the truth. The difference with audio that I see is that some folks dismiss the ABX blinded test as invalid when they can't hear differences. However, they do believe they can hear differences when they swap the same equipment while knowing what is hooked up. No proper level matching, no instantaneous switching, no controls at all, and the ABX test is the one that is flawed? Sheesh.

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