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Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club


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32 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:

Who says Klipsch can’t image...😄

 

Its rare that you will see someone with a room and setup that will allow the full imaging capabilities of the mighty Klipschorns but when done right they can have excellent imaging including depth.

 

I have currently been doing a direct comparison between my Klipsch Jubilee system and a near field setup with KEF LS50 coaxial and I wish you all could hear how very similar in imaging they are ... 🙂

 

miketnF50D89D6-27F6-45E3-9686-12265FD61BC9.thumb.jpeg.6178d8d97e69e6efdb163c82b5c377df.jpeg

Very nice.

 

How far away do you listen from each pair?

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6 hours ago, kink56 said:

In general I prefer the tone of Yamaha pianos over Steinways, but that is a preference, not based on anything scientific. 

From my experience, Pianos are very individual which I am pretty sure you know - given your guitar experience. There is no way I would buy a piano without actually playing it! I have played 7 borsendorfer grand that sold new for well over a 100K that I prefer yamaha grands to. I have also played Steinways that are sublime and others that are not!

My piano, that I will take to the grave is a 6'10" Schimmel. Incredible sound and action!

J

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15 minutes ago, joshnich said:

From my experience, Pianos are very individual which I am pretty sure you know - given your guitar experience. There is no way I would buy a piano without actually playing it! I have played 7 borsendorfer grand that sold new for well over a 100K that I prefer yamaha grands to. I have also played Steinways that are sublime and others that are not!

My piano, that I will take to the grave is a 6'10" Schimmel. Incredible sound and action!

J

That is so awesome.  How old is it?  Unfortunately, recently bankrupt and bought out by China, they are headed downhill fast I expect.

 

Never get rid of yours.

 

I suppose if you take it to your grave you can just be buried in it and save of a casket.

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2 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:

Who says Klipsch can’t image...😄

 

Its rare that you will see someone with a room and setup that will allow the full imaging capabilities of the mighty Klipschorns but when done right they can have excellent imaging including depth.

 

I have currently been doing a direct comparison between my Klipsch Jubilee system and a near field setup with KEF LS50 coaxial and I wish you all could hear how very similar in imaging they are ... 🙂

 

miketn

 

 

miketn,

 

Impressive looking set-up.

 

I'm jealous.   I wish I had room for Jubilee.   I haven't even heard them.

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20 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

That is so awesome.  How old is it?  Unfortunately, recently bankrupt and bought out by China, they are headed downhill fast I expect.

 

Never get rid of yours.

 

I suppose if you take it to your grave you can just be buried in it and save of a casket.

And Borsendorfer was bought by yamaha!

The story behind my Schimmel is actually pretty interesting. I was in the market for a piano and went on a "piano quest". I should note that in my 20's I thought that being a piano tech would be an awesome way to make a living. I worked with a local tuner and actually attended the Piano Technician Guild convention. I rebuilt a few pianos and learned a lot. I can still do some rudimentary work on my piano. I learned pretty quickly that being a piano tech was not going to be my lifes work! But I did learn a lot about pianos.  There was a pretty large piano retailer - Colton Pianos - that was the importer for Schimmel. Colton also sold inexpensive pianos from China under the Schafer and sons brand. Schafer was his house brand. In an effort to build the brand reputation for Schafer, he had Schimmel grands branded Schafer for pianos that were on stage - either in a performance venue or even for Television. I happened upon a listing in LA for a 6'10 Schafer & Sons and knew that it had to actually be a Schimmel - Schafer never made a 6'10". I went to LA to check it out. Yep it was a schimmel. I contacted the factory in Germany and confirmed. Because the fall board had Schafer and Sons engraved on it as well as stenciled in large type on the side ( which I easily removed) I paid 8K for a piano that at the time was worth over 50K. Schimmel offered to send me a replacement fall board for a couple hundred bucks but I never got around to ordering it. Long answer to the question on the age of the piano. If I recall corectly it was built in 71.

So if you see a Shafer and Sons 6'10" grand know that it is actually a Schimmel and one of the worlds finest pianos!

IMG_1206.jpeg

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43 minutes ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

Have you ever tried listening nearfield to your Jubes, crossing the on axis well behind you?

 

Very little mostly because of their physical size which would dominate my soundstage visually in a near field arrangement which is the opposite of what my goal is as far as creating a visually open space for the vocalist and instruments to appear to populate.

 

 You can’t tell from the above picture but the room is about 19 1/2ft wide and the outside of the Jubs are about 3 1/2ft In from the side walls currently. So on recordings with good imaging the imaging can extend from wall to wall well past the physical locations of the loudspeakers.

 

Whats really fun in this room is I can almost make it pitch dark so when I set the lights to really low and the visual cues of the room boundaries are very low the brain can localize the imaging much easier and thus enhancing the illusion. I’m telling you I’ve spent many hours with Muddy Waters (Folk Singer album) actually in this room 😄 and you can hear echoes off the walls of the recording room. Heck Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson (Storytellers) just left and dam thats what makes this hobby so enjoyable for me 🙂.

 

miketn

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31 minutes ago, joshnich said:

And Borsendorfer was bought by yamaha!

The story behind my Schimmel is actually pretty interesting. I was in the market for a piano and went on a "piano quest". I should note that in my 20's I thought that being a piano tech would be an awesome way to make a living. I worked with a local tuner and actually attended the Piano Technician Guild convention. I rebuilt a few pianos and learned a lot. I can still do some rudimentary work on my piano. I learned pretty quickly that being a piano tech was not going to be my lifes work! But I did learn a lot about pianos.  There was a pretty large piano retailer - Colton Pianos - that was the importer for Schimmel. Colton also sold inexpensive pianos from China under the Schafer and sons brand. Schafer was his house brand. In an effort to build the brand reputation for Schafer, he had Schimmel grands branded Schafer for pianos that were on stage - either in a performance venue or even for Television. I happened upon a listing in LA for a 6'10 Schafer & Sons and knew that it had to actually be a Schimmel - Schafer never made a 6'10". I went to LA to check it out. Yep it was a schimmel. I contacted the factory in Germany and confirmed. Because the fall board had Schafer and Sons engraved on it as well as stenciled in large type on the side ( which I easily removed) I paid 8K for a piano that at the time was worth over 50K. Schimmel offered to send me a replacement fall board for a couple hundred bucks but I never got around to ordering it. Long answer to the question on the age of the piano. If I recall corectly it was built in 71.

So if you see a Shafer and Sons 6'10" grand know that it is actually a Schimmel and one of the worlds finest pianos!

IMG_1206.jpeg

 

Beautiful indeed!  Question: is that a Prathermade LP rack in the other room?  https://www.prathermade.com  Do you like it?

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1 hour ago, robert_kc said:

 

 

miketn,

 

Impressive looking set-up.

 

I'm jealous.   I wish I had room for Jubilee.   I haven't even heard them.

 

Thanks robert_kc

Hopefully you will get a chance someday but like any great speaker they benefit from a good room to release their full potential which I believe I still have some magic to squeeze out of them myself 😄

 

miketn

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The LS50 looks interesting. While I’m not exactly a bass freak - I need more than 80Hz out of a monitor. It is a question of balance though, and if the top is rolled off a bit, I might like those quite a bit. 

 

Dual concentric designs are cool. I would like to hear the new Tannoy XT8F. 

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  1. Alll thing being equal (which they are not) one should expect the pro to somehow outperform given the stage size read, large, in order for your auditory factor to digest the difference in size and capacity to fully comprehend. Though your auditory sweet spot versus a live presentation can comprehend a difference, there most certainly is. Case is growing to a semi-close surely...All the best...
  2. Which brings us to the idea: Listen to a 10 Years after live concert (youtube) on the BBC studio performance while listening to your home variety versus, a pro system... let me know. Case in point Live 1969... Count Basie... You may be right, I may be wrong, but, I won't be wrong always...Thanks!
  3. Meanwhile, am happy with my home/heritage version...YMMV
  4. Thanks!
  5. BTW, decent DAC will help.
  6. Edit: and finally lastly to say, thank you for this thread. Have much to learn yet. Just a limited opinion based upon personal observance.
  7. Physics equaling size greater than matter...imlo
  8. Edited again ,,,the physics rule out any smaller venue ...you may agree...?
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13 hours ago, joshnich said:

From my experience, Pianos are very individual which I am pretty sure you know - given your guitar experience. There is no way I would buy a piano without actually playing it! I have played 7 borsendorfer grand that sold new for well over a 100K that I prefer yamaha grands to. I have also played Steinways that are sublime and others that are not!

My piano, that I will take to the grave is a 6'10" Schimmel. Incredible sound and action!

J

That is why I said "in general". 

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Those Jubes are far more attractive than any set I've seen on the internet before.  Maybe I should endeavor to obtain a set someday!    Ah, I see that there are two-way, three-way and four-way Jubes.  The two-ways you have are the most attractive, and I see they are generally the best for home use.     A lot of people put them in corners, but I see you haven't.    That is encouraging as I do not have functional corners in the room I would put them in. 

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20 hours ago, Deang said:

I would love to try multichannel again, but I have no idea what in the hell I’m doing. And the wires, too much damned wire!

Still easy in comparison to multi speakers with Active Xovers. Imangine a 7.1 or 11.2 with 3 way active, that's 33 pairs of wires plus subs!

 

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Yesterday I listened to an audio demonstration where a pair of miniature microphones suspended on tiny wire supports are placed at the opening of each person's ear canals, to monitor the frequency response of the music reaching the ears. Using this feedback, the engineers would adjust the signal for the best sound. I want the home version if and when it becomes available.

 

Beginners will use easier ways of finding their desired sound than some of us amp jugglers, myself including, have in the past.

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21 hours ago, Deang said:

I would love to try multichannel again, but I have no idea what in the hell I’m doing. And the wires, too much damned wire!

 

If you already own (or have access to) 2 stereo amps and 2 sets of speakers, you can cobble together a proof-of-concept system to determine if surround-sound suits you.  

 

You don’t need an AVR (or pre-processor) to play multi-channel digital recordings (e.g., SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray, and Blu-ray video).   An Oppo universal player (e.g. UDP-205, BDP-105, or BDP-95) will decode any digital recording.   These Oppo players have built-in "pre-amp" functionality, including selectable downmixing (e.g., 7.1, 5.1, 5.0, 2.1, 2.0), bass management (i.e., configurable subwoofer crossover and RCA line-level connection), and remote volume control.   Additionally, you can simply not connect the rear channels and have 3.0 or 3.1, or combine the rear channels for 4.0 or 4.1.

 

You can build a great surround sound system with an Oppo universal player and two stereo amps and speakers (i.e., 4.0 or 4.1 system).  If you’re interested in experimenting with this, I suggest that you conduct a test by connecting a stereo amp and speakers to the Oppo's Surround Left and Surround Right outputs and listen for how much rear content there is in your favorite recordings, and how much L vs. R distinction.  Only you can decide if separate L&R rear channels are worthwhile.   (For the classical music I listen to, there is little rear channel sound (basically hall sound) and little L vs. R distinction.  I therefore combine Surround Left and Surround Right.)   If L vs R distinction isn’t important to you for the rear channels, then combine the rear channel connections from the Blu-ray player into one via an RCA Y-cable.  Connect one stereo amp for L&R, and a second stereo amp for center and rear.

 

(Of course, you could implement 5.1 by using two stereo amps plus one mono amp.)

 

I use the Oppo's analog line-level RCA connections to my vintage tube amps - in other words using the Oppo's DACs and pre-amp. 

 

In my 4.2 system, L, C, and R speakers are Klipsch RF-7II.  The single rear speaker is an RF-7.   Subwoofers:  SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW.   I use whatever tube amps I choose.  For example, yesterday I listened to a classical Blu-ray using a Scott 296 for front L&R, and a Scott 272 for center and rear.  Sounded fabulous.

  

 

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41 minutes ago, robert_kc said:

 

If you already own (or have access to) 2 stereo amps and 2 sets of speakers, you can cobble together a proof-of-concept system to determine if surround-sound suits you.  

 

You don’t need an AVR (or pre-processor) to play multi-channel digital recordings (e.g., SACD, Pure Audio Blu-ray, and Blu-ray video).   An Oppo universal player (e.g. UDP-205, BDP-105, or BDP-95) will decode any digital recording.   These Oppo players have built-in "pre-amp" functionality, including selectable downmixing (e.g., 7.1, 5.1, 5.0, 2.1, 2.0), bass management (i.e., configurable subwoofer crossover and RCA line-level connection), and remote volume control.   Additionally, you can simply not connect the rear channels and have 3.0 or 3.1, or combine the rear channels for 4.0 or 4.1.

 

You can build a great surround sound system with an Oppo universal player and two stereo amps and speakers (i.e., 4.0 or 4.1 system).  If you’re interested in experimenting with this, I suggest that you conduct a test by connecting a stereo amp and speakers to the Oppo's Surround Left and Surround Right outputs and listen for how much rear content there is in your favorite recordings, and how much L vs. R distinction.  Only you can decide if separate L&R rear channels are worthwhile.   (For the classical music I listen to, there is little rear channel sound (basically hall sound) and little L vs. R distinction.  I therefore combine Surround Left and Surround Right.)   If L vs R distinction isn’t important to you for the rear channels, then combine the rear channel connections from the Blu-ray player into one via an RCA Y-cable.  Connect one stereo amp for L&R, and a second stereo amp for center and rear.

 

(Of course, you could implement 5.1 by using two stereo amps plus one mono amp.)

 

I use the Oppo's analog line-level RCA connections to my vintage tube amps - in other words using the Oppo's DACs and pre-amp. 

 

In my 4.2 system, L, C, and R speakers are Klipsch RF-7II.  The single rear speaker is an RF-7.   Subwoofers:  SVS SB16-Ultra, Klipsch R-115SW.   I use whatever tube amps I choose.  For example, yesterday I listened to a classical Blu-ray using a Scott 296 for front L&R, and a Scott 272 for center and rear.  Sounded fabulous.

  

 

And here I am assembling a mono system to play my mono records. ;)

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