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Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club


ODS123

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3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

You know what the difference is? You don't see (most) others on this forum pushing their opinions as the gospel of Jesus Christ himself.

 

I don't care what your (or anyone else for that matter) credentials are. I trust my ears as to what sounds good.

 

I was listening to "March of the Toy  Drums" on my Kenner close n play in the  mid-60s. Been immersed in music ever since. Don't you dare challenge my credentials.........

 

Shakey

 

That's ridiculous.  ..You express no less self-certainty in your beliefs than do I.  From you, and most of the others in this thread, it's "I know the differences exist because I hear them.." and from me it's "you may believe you hear differences but are they real or just imagined?"  

 

We are both just as self confident in our positions.  ..But one big differences b/w the two, aside from the obvious, is that I attempt to provide to beginners some degree of scientific rigor to support my advice.  Advice which is basic, pragmatic, and affordable.  

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3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

You know what the difference is? You don't see (most) others on this forum pushing their opinions as the gospel of Jesus Christ himself.

 

I don't care what your (or anyone else for that matter) credentials are. I trust my ears as to what sounds good.

 

I was listening to "March of the Toy  Drums" on my Kenner close n play in the  mid-60s. Been immersed in music ever since. Don't you dare challenge my credentials.........

 

Shakey

Do you think we could hear the difference between your Close N' Play and my Show N' Tell??

I just have to see if I can get one back from Ebay.

 

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My inclination is almost always to listen more to those that suggest based on experience, and don’t make hard and fast rules to follow based on third party sources that may or may not be questionable.  There are many folks posting on this thread that are DIY inclined.  They have done the homework with the goal of better sound in mind, and have gone through the effort and expense to attain that goal.  Opening up boxes and putting components in a system, and then quoting a third party to justify these choices is just not in the same league, no matter what third party sources are quoted.  I will always listen to the advice of someone who has carefully and thoughtfully applied the experimental method over someone who bases what they posit on a third party.  Always. 

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4 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

I was listening to "March of the Toy  Drums" on my Kenner close n play in the  mid-60s. Been immersed in music ever since. Don't you dare challenge my credentials...

 

Obviously no room treatments. Problematic. 

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1 hour ago, Tizman said:

...  I will always listen to the advice of someone who has carefully and thoughtfully applied the experimentational method over someone who bases what they posit on a third party.  Always. 

 

I thoughtfully apply the experiential method.

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

We are both just as self confident in our positions.  ..But one big differences b/w the two, aside from the obvious, is that I attempt to provide to beginners some degree of scientific rigor to support my advice.  Advice which is basic, pragmatic, and affordable.

 So please describe your recommended beginner's basic, pragmatic, and affordable system components. If I were looking what should I buy?

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5 minutes ago, Dave A said:

 So please describe your recommended beginner's basic, pragmatic, and affordable system components. If I were looking what should I buy?

 

=== I say this with all honesty. Good enough for “most” people would be a mid-grade AV integrated/receiver, a Bose surround type system with a sub, done. Or, and I recently heard this setup, a Sonos system - sound bar, satellite Alexa speakers and a sub. Music all over your house, garage etc. My step son, who loves my Klipsch gear and has small Klipsch RP bookshelves and a Mc amp just bought the above Sonos gear, it sounds remarkably good. We went looking for a Klipsch equivalent and they offer nothing that compares. Sonos is light years ahead in this market. 

 

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2 hours ago, richieb said:

 

=== . My step son, who loves my Klipsch gear and has small Klipsch RP bookshelves and a Mc amp just bought the above Sonos gear, it sounds remarkably good.

 

 

Yes, it does.  And when buying a sonos setup people aren't apt to hear nonsense from a salesperson about costly speaker cables, power cords/conditioners, and amps that have a magical topology.  ..Or told to give the speakers and/or amp hundreds of hours of break-in time before any "critical listening".

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ODS123 is consistent at least.  Onward to 100 pages!  

 

Advice to beginners:  “Buy whatever.  It all sounds the same anyway”.

 

Just ask ODS123.  He has been upgrading for years now, not because he thinks some components sound better than others, but because he likes opening boxes.  It’s fun.

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23 minutes ago, Tizman said:

ODS123 is consistent at least.  Onward to 100 pages!  

 

Advice to beginners:  “Buy whatever.  It all sounds the same anyway”.

 

Just ask ODS123.  He has been upgrading for years now, not because he thinks some components sound better than others, but because he likes opening boxes.  It’s fun.

 

Strawman Alert!  ..No one, not me nor anyone else has said "Buy whatever. It all sounds the same anyway."  Yet you continue to attribute this to me.

 

Your strategy is pretty clear:  It's way easier to assail the words you put in my mouth than those that actually came out of it.

 

As for the other remark regarding boxes... utterly unintelligible.  No idea what you're trying to say. 

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40 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

Yes, it does.  And when buying a sonos setup people aren't apt to hear nonsense from a salesperson about costly speaker cables, power cords/conditioners, and amps that have a magical topology.  ..Or told to give the speakers and/or amp hundreds of hours of break-in time before any "critical listening".

 

=== you’re right, the salesman said nothing to him about cables, conditioners and lengthy break-in time. BUT I reminded him of how good my Jubes sound on the receiving end of several thousand $$$ worth of Pass amps/pre and quality cables. All well broken in — just sayin’.

As they say - proof is in the pudding — 

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Just now, richieb said:

 

=== you’re right, the salesman said nothing to him about cables, conditioners and lengthy break-in time. BUT I reminded him of how good my Jubes sound on the receiving end of several thousand $$$ worth of Pass amps/pre and quality cables. All well broken in — just sayin’.

As they say - proof is in the pudding — 

 

okay... and how good would those Jubes sound w/ non-Pass amps (say, Onkyo AVR) and generic cables??  ..Probably just as good.  - just sayin'.

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21 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

===. BUT I reminded him of how good my Jubes sound on the receiving end of several thousand $$$ worth of Pass amps/pre and quality cables. All well broken in — just sayin’.

As they say - proof is in the pudding — 

 

And how good would your Jubes sound with NON Pass amps/pre and quality cables??  ..Well, RC's $10K Amplifier challenge and the Guadalajara Audio Club A/B test suggests.. about the same.  ..just sayin'.

As they say - proof is in the pudding (once a modicum of science is applied and biases are reduced/eliminated).

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