ClaudeJ1 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Deang said: I prefer linear room treatments. If you think anything in this world is linear, your resolution is not high enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: You know what the difference is? You don't see (most) others on this forum pushing their opinions as the gospel of Jesus Christ himself. I don't care what your (or anyone else for that matter) credentials are. I trust my ears as to what sounds good. I was listening to "March of the Toy Drums" on my Kenner close n play in the mid-60s. Been immersed in music ever since. Don't you dare challenge my credentials......... Shakey That's ridiculous. ..You express no less self-certainty in your beliefs than do I. From you, and most of the others in this thread, it's "I know the differences exist because I hear them.." and from me it's "you may believe you hear differences but are they real or just imagined?" We are both just as self confident in our positions. ..But one big differences b/w the two, aside from the obvious, is that I attempt to provide to beginners some degree of scientific rigor to support my advice. Advice which is basic, pragmatic, and affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: You know what the difference is? You don't see (most) others on this forum pushing their opinions as the gospel of Jesus Christ himself. I don't care what your (or anyone else for that matter) credentials are. I trust my ears as to what sounds good. I was listening to "March of the Toy Drums" on my Kenner close n play in the mid-60s. Been immersed in music ever since. Don't you dare challenge my credentials......... Shakey Do you think we could hear the difference between your Close N' Play and my Show N' Tell?? I just have to see if I can get one back from Ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 My inclination is almost always to listen more to those that suggest based on experience, and don’t make hard and fast rules to follow based on third party sources that may or may not be questionable. There are many folks posting on this thread that are DIY inclined. They have done the homework with the goal of better sound in mind, and have gone through the effort and expense to attain that goal. Opening up boxes and putting components in a system, and then quoting a third party to justify these choices is just not in the same league, no matter what third party sources are quoted. I will always listen to the advice of someone who has carefully and thoughtfully applied the experimental method over someone who bases what they posit on a third party. Always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: I was listening to "March of the Toy Drums" on my Kenner close n play in the mid-60s. Been immersed in music ever since. Don't you dare challenge my credentials... Obviously no room treatments. Problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Tizman said: ... I will always listen to the advice of someone who has carefully and thoughtfully applied the experimentational method over someone who bases what they posit on a third party. Always. I thoughtfully apply the experiential method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Yes, that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, ODS123 said: We are both just as self confident in our positions. ..But one big differences b/w the two, aside from the obvious, is that I attempt to provide to beginners some degree of scientific rigor to support my advice. Advice which is basic, pragmatic, and affordable. So please describe your recommended beginner's basic, pragmatic, and affordable system components. If I were looking what should I buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dave A said: So please describe your recommended beginner's basic, pragmatic, and affordable system components. If I were looking what should I buy? === I say this with all honesty. Good enough for “most” people would be a mid-grade AV integrated/receiver, a Bose surround type system with a sub, done. Or, and I recently heard this setup, a Sonos system - sound bar, satellite Alexa speakers and a sub. Music all over your house, garage etc. My step son, who loves my Klipsch gear and has small Klipsch RP bookshelves and a Mc amp just bought the above Sonos gear, it sounds remarkably good. We went looking for a Klipsch equivalent and they offer nothing that compares. Sonos is light years ahead in this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Mic drop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Yup starting for me was an Onkyo 8050 and an $800.00 La Scala. Whole shooting match for $1,000.00 and I was in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 hours ago, richieb said: === . My step son, who loves my Klipsch gear and has small Klipsch RP bookshelves and a Mc amp just bought the above Sonos gear, it sounds remarkably good. Yes, it does. And when buying a sonos setup people aren't apt to hear nonsense from a salesperson about costly speaker cables, power cords/conditioners, and amps that have a magical topology. ..Or told to give the speakers and/or amp hundreds of hours of break-in time before any "critical listening". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 ODS123 is consistent at least. Onward to 100 pages! Advice to beginners: “Buy whatever. It all sounds the same anyway”. Just ask ODS123. He has been upgrading for years now, not because he thinks some components sound better than others, but because he likes opening boxes. It’s fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, Tizman said: ODS123 is consistent at least. Onward to 100 pages! Advice to beginners: “Buy whatever. It all sounds the same anyway”. Just ask ODS123. He has been upgrading for years now, not because he thinks some components sound better than others, but because he likes opening boxes. It’s fun. Strawman Alert! ..No one, not me nor anyone else has said "Buy whatever. It all sounds the same anyway." Yet you continue to attribute this to me. Your strategy is pretty clear: It's way easier to assail the words you put in my mouth than those that actually came out of it. As for the other remark regarding boxes... utterly unintelligible. No idea what you're trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I didn't say that you said anything. I just said you like opening boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 40 minutes ago, ODS123 said: Yes, it does. And when buying a sonos setup people aren't apt to hear nonsense from a salesperson about costly speaker cables, power cords/conditioners, and amps that have a magical topology. ..Or told to give the speakers and/or amp hundreds of hours of break-in time before any "critical listening". === you’re right, the salesman said nothing to him about cables, conditioners and lengthy break-in time. BUT I reminded him of how good my Jubes sound on the receiving end of several thousand $$$ worth of Pass amps/pre and quality cables. All well broken in — just sayin’. As they say - proof is in the pudding — Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Just now, richieb said: === you’re right, the salesman said nothing to him about cables, conditioners and lengthy break-in time. BUT I reminded him of how good my Jubes sound on the receiving end of several thousand $$$ worth of Pass amps/pre and quality cables. All well broken in — just sayin’. As they say - proof is in the pudding — okay... and how good would those Jubes sound w/ non-Pass amps (say, Onkyo AVR) and generic cables?? ..Probably just as good. - just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 DEFLECT ALERT! So why are you not telling us your recommended beginner's basic, pragmatic, and affordable system components? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I find earplugs help make everything sound the same too. Except for interconnects. I can hear the difference between interconnects with earplugs in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ODS123 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, richieb said: ===. BUT I reminded him of how good my Jubes sound on the receiving end of several thousand $$$ worth of Pass amps/pre and quality cables. All well broken in — just sayin’. As they say - proof is in the pudding — And how good would your Jubes sound with NON Pass amps/pre and quality cables?? ..Well, RC's $10K Amplifier challenge and the Guadalajara Audio Club A/B test suggests.. about the same. ..just sayin'. As they say - proof is in the pudding (once a modicum of science is applied and biases are reduced/eliminated). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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