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Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

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7 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Never ever heard anyone say they heard any type of a problem with bass of a Khorn, or Cousin Jubilee, UNLESS it was a corner issue, not sealing, blown woofer(s) or they didn't have a corner.  Outside of that you typically hear people say it is the best natural sounding bass they have ever heard.

kink56 included Khorn in the hump club, if I remember correctly.  Does Khorn also have a documented 150 HZ hump in response?

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That's enough about me. I do not want to start talking in circles. I have said my piece on this subject. Let's move on to "all modern linear amps sound the same" again. It is far less excruciating for me anyway.   Never heard a Jubilee, but the two-way version really interests me.  

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Just now, Tizman said:

So the cabinet is definitely causing the 150 HZ hump, and not the design of the horn? 

I can't answer that since I had no way to analyze output other than listening to them. I forgot to mention that the LSI also had K-43 woofers in them which does not go quite as low as the K-33's did but sounds much better to me. It was not a subtle difference either.  Trying to get to the point where when I make changes to things I can measure results. On the LSI I had rebuilt the crossovers, put in a set of DE120's and had also put in a set of K-55-V soldered lug drivers. The final result was really striking. The stock LSI's with just the crossover recapped was also superb and did not have the side wall resonance I had heard on regular La Scalas.  

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2 minutes ago, kink56 said:

That is just one good example.  I heard this problem on numerous CDs include a whole host of ECM CDs I have to name some more.  It is not a problem with bitrate or mastering. It is a problem that does not exist or exists to such a small extent to the list of other speakers I have owned and posted above.  It is a problem inherent to the Belles and most likely the La Scala and I dare even say (gasp) the K-horns, (albeit to a lesser extent). 

No specific version then? You do have it in hand don't you since you have offered to take it places?

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I am getting the sneaking suspicion that my lack of issues with this hump problem is the product of not using “a modern amplifier engineered to be linear” the majority of the time.  I don’t hear it, and I listened to the song suggested by kink56 a few times at different volumes.  

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12 minutes ago, Tizman said:

I am getting the sneaking suspicion that my lack of issues with this hump problem is the product of not using “a modern amplifier engineered to be linear” the majority of the time.  I don’t hear it, and I listened to the song suggested by kink56 a few times at different volumes.  

Amending this to wait and see.

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4 minutes ago, Dave A said:

No specific version then? You do have it in hand don't you since you have offered to take it places?

I am only aware of one version. Rough Trade CD 285 copyright 2008. 

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2 minutes ago, kink56 said:

I am only aware of one version. Rough Trade CD 285 copyright 2008. 

OK maybe not deflection and I will see if I can find it.

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How much power does it take to produce the resonance?   Im going to listen to "Birds" in a bit on my K's and tell if I can hear what you are hearing.

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1 minute ago, kink56 said:

I am only aware of one version. Rough Trade CD 285 copyright 2008. 

I cannot prove anything other than to myself. I have no idea what an experience is like for another person.   All I can say I know of a few people who cannot hear it even when I point it out to them.   So, I cannot account for what other people hear or not, or notice or not.  But I am HAPPY that some here have conceded that at least the Belle and La Scala have a 150hz 7dB hump.  Apparently that has been proven in a empirical fashion. 

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2 minutes ago, Max2 said:

How much power does it take to produce the resonance?   Im going to listen to "Birds" in a bit on my K's and tell if I can hear what you are hearing.

Not much, it is evident to me around 70-75 dB.    It does not change much in magnitude as you get louder, it stays about proportionally the same. But then again I NEVER listen to my music any louder than 90dB.  

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7 minutes ago, kink56 said:

I am only aware of one version. Rough Trade CD 285 copyright 2008. 

I have one on the way from EBay Sweden so it will take a few days.

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1 minute ago, kink56 said:

I cannot prove anything other than to myself. I have no idea what an experience is like for another person.   All I can say I know of a few people who cannot hear it even when I point it out to them.   So, I cannot account for what other people hear or not, or notice or not.  But I am HAPPY that some here have conceded that at least the Belle and La Scala have a 150hz 7dB hump.  Apparently that has been proven in a empirical fashion. 

Yes.  Yes.  There is a hump.  Plenty of speakers have less humps, and still sound like crap in comparison.  Including many on your list.

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4 minutes ago, Dave A said:

OK maybe not deflection and I will see if I can find it.

So you are going to buy this CD?  Well it is pretty good music, but certainly not to everyone's taste.   The song Me And Armini has got some pretty decent bass and that song does not seem to excite the 150hz hump nearly as much as the song Birds.   Also, as an aside, Birds has a VERY low rumbling going on completely divorced from the thumping sound of the a string on the acoustic guitar that bothers the heck out of me. 

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7 minutes ago, Tizman said:

Yes.  Yes.  There is a hump.  Plenty of speakers have less humps, and still sound like crap in comparison.  Including many on your list.

Yes, some of the speakers on that list I do not care for. But some others are sublime, especially in the way they can create a 3-D soundstage that seems so life-like.   My friend now owns the ProAc Super Towers, I replaced the Ti tweeters with the same tweeters used on Tablettes. These are the best all around speakers I have ever heard.  If I lived in my current house when I owned them, I would not have sold them.   Maybe someday he will sell them back to me. 

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Removing the 150 Hz bump makes for a way better sounding speaker.

 

Its the horn design and not the cabinet, the cabinet of the La Scala has its own known issue.

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4 minutes ago, Dave A said:

I have one on the way from EBay Sweden so it will take a few days.

Wow, now THAT'S dedication.  I have not kept track, what speakers do you have?  La Scalas?   Believe it or not, I do not even attempt to keep track of who says what. I only read what is said, not who said it.  Such is the way I am on any forum.   I am all about content not authors. 

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2 minutes ago, kink56 said:

So you are going to buy this CD?  Well it is pretty good music, but certainly not to everyone's taste.   The song Me And Armini has got some pretty decent bass and that song does not seem to excite the 150hz hump nearly as much as the song Birds.   Also, as an aside, Birds has a VERY low rumbling going on completely divorced from the thumping sound of the a string on the acoustic guitar that bothers the heck out of me. 

I am finding over time fidelity is what I am looking for although a lot of electronic stuff with all the weird genre titles sounds bizarre to me. Swapped music with a speaker buyer recently and he was loaded up on Rap full of trash lyrics, if you could call disgusting rants lyrics, and no talent repetition and all those were scrubbed right away. I listen to anything once because you just never know.

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4 minutes ago, kink56 said:

Wow, now THAT'S dedication.  I have not kept track, what speakers do you have?  La Scalas?   Believe it or not, I do not even attempt to keep track of who says what. I only read what is said, not who said it.  Such is the way I am on any forum.   I am all about content not authors. 

MCM 1900 three way stack is my current system. I like to buy and fix old speakers so I have gone through a number of them in the last few years.

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3 minutes ago, jason str said:

Removing the 150 Hz bump makes for a way better sounding speaker.

 

Its the horn design and not the cabinet, the cabinet of the La Scala has its own known issue.

Interesting. I have always thought it was the cabinet being excited by that frequency.   So if it is the horn design, the new La Scala isn't that much different in bass bin design (horn configuration) from the La Scala I to alleviate this problem then? 

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