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ODS123

Advice for Beginners - consider this test from an audio club

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51 minutes ago, Deang said:

 

Your Cornwall III's are braced. I see a Plywood motorboard, but the rest looks like MDF (which helps).

 

It's not a "myth", it's from "Building Loudspeakers 101". Smaller speakers don't suffer from the problem as much because the panels are smaller.

 

Cornwall III's being built. Notice the braces.

 

I think we have a few thousand posts on this forum on how to brace Cornwalls.

 

 

post-7149-1381985418475.jpg

 

 

Thank you Dean, I stand corrected.  
 

What I should have said is that the "rap" test is an audiophile myth.  I have encountered many speakers that fail this rather non-scientific test yet have no audible resonances.

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Sure, usually small monitors. Large loudspeakers are always braced. If not, they'll "sing".

 

Read the article. It's not a "myth".

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1 hour ago, Deang said:

"The knuckle test, unlike tire kicking (performed at various locations around the cabinet panels), can certainly tell you if the box is rigid from the pitch of the sounds it makes when knocked."

 

https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-cabinets

 

Just did.  I would argue that a speaker needs to be braced only to whatever extent necessary to ensure that resonances are not audible while speakers are driven within design limits.  Beyond that, add'l bracing is superfluous.  PWK must have felt the same b/c NONE of Klipsch's speakers do all that well in "The knuckle test".  

 

Knocking on my Paradigm S8s or Vandersteen 3A Sigs sounded like knocking on a cinder block - they were THAT inert.  ..And while neither had audible resonances neither do my Cornwall IIIs (MDF edition) which sound a bit like knocking on a cardboard shoe box.  

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1 hour ago, Deang said:

 

I see a Plywood motorboard, but the rest looks like MDF (which helps).

 

The motorboard in the picture IS MDF, a variety of MDF that is sandwiched between layers of thin plywood.  ..In other shots from the Cornwall (MDF edition) build pictures (can't find the link, but I've looked at it many times) you'll see that ALL of the Cornwall III's walls are constructed of this material as well.  ..FWIW, the baffle of Klipsch's highly acclaimed Pro-Series are also made of MDF.  ..According to the spec sheets, anyway.

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I think I'll just argue that the loudspeakers were value engineered, which is obvious by their construction, drivers, and crossover components. That doesn't mean they don't sound good -- they do. That was the genius of PWK -- but they are far from perfect.

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1 minute ago, Deang said:

I think I'll just argue that the loudspeakers were value engineered, which is obvious by their construction, drivers, and crossover components. That doesn't mean they don't sound good -- they do. That was the genius of PWK -- but they are far from perfect.

 

Any Speaker company that isn't value-engineering their speakers, for their respective price segments, will not be a speaker company for long.

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2 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

another audiophile myth.  I've heard numerous unbraced speakers that did not exhibit audible resonances.  ..Including my current CWIII's

Good Morning OD great to see you here today. I admire your luck and ability to always have the best of everything and the shiniest knobs. You even get a Cornwall that does not resonate! It is not fair because the five sets I have had all did do this.

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1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

Thank you Dean, I stand corrected.  
 

What I should have said is that the "rap" test is an audiophile myth.  I have encountered many speakers that fail this rather non-scientific test yet have no audible resonances.

Well Dean you are still wrong after all. HEY folks welcome to day 25 of the Audiophile extravaganza!

 

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4 minutes ago, Dave A said:

Good Morning OD great to see you here today. I admire your luck and ability to always have the best of everything and the shiniest knobs. You even get a Cornwall that does not resonate! It is not fair because the five sets I have had all did do this.

 

tsk, tsk,... you should have held out for the MDF-editions. :)

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2 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 

tsk, tsk,... you should have held out for the MDF-editions. :)

No doubt about that and still holding out.

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3 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

another audiophile myth.  I've heard numerous unbraced speakers that did not exhibit audible resonances.  ..Including my current CWIII's

 

Cornwall III has additional bracing.

 

I see now after catching up on the thread page Dean beat me to it.

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10 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Cornwall III has additional bracing.

 

I see now after catching up on the thread page Dean beat me to it.

After owning them I can say for sure the cabs will vibrate at higher volumes, however putting a coin standing up on the cab did not cause it to mvoe or fall, but you can feel vibrations transmitted.   Nonetheless, I heard no audible degradation as a result IMO using solid state and or digital amps with high damping factor.   However, compared to heresy IIIs, the bass was a little slower and sloppier, yet had an extreme amount more impact and extension (to be expected of course).  I hate sloppy, boomy bass and the Cornwall IIIs didn't have it in my room. LA scala IIs I can't comment on since I haven't heard a pair but would certainly like to. 

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1 minute ago, Westcoastdrums said:

After owning them I can say for sure the cabs will vibrate at higher volumes, however putting a coin standing up on the cab did not cause it to mvoe or fall, but you can feel vibrations transmitted.   Nonetheless, I heard no audible degradation as a result IMO using solid state and or digital amps with high damping factor.   However, compared to heresy IIIs, the bass was a little slower and sloppier, yet had an extreme amount more impact and extension (to be expected of course).  I hate sloppy, boomy bass and the Cornwall IIIs didn't have it in my room. LA scala IIs I can't comment on since I haven't heard a pair but would certainly like to. 

Funny how rooms can effect things. I bought a set of AL crossover La Scalas and went to pick them up. The guy had them in a room with a bunch of other gear and the bass was remarkable and they sounded really nice. I get them to my shop and it is like where did the bass go.

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Klipsch hit a home run with the LaScala II. Excellent sounding loudspeaker.

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Just now, Dave A said:

Funny how rooms can effect things. I bought a set of AL crossover La Scalas and went to pick them up. The guy had them in a room with a bunch of other gear and the bass was remarkable and they sounded really nice. I get them to my shop and it is like where did the bass go.

Good bass in my tight basement too. Room gain pays dividends.

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34 minutes ago, Deang said:

Klipsch hit a home run with the LaScala II. Excellent sounding loudspeaker.

Completely agree.  After I heard them and the Heresy III at Hope last year, it was an easy decision for me.

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In some cases, the rap test works best when applied directly to the cranium.

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Knock knock... is anyone home?

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3 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

 

4 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

Using a poorly recorded song as a demo to point out a speaker's shortcomings seems odd.

 

Actually, it is a clever way to make any piece of audio equipment sound bad

 

It’s kind of like recording the sound of someone farting, using that recording to test a speaker, and then complaining that the speaker made a farting noise during the listening session.

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4 minutes ago, Tizman said:

It’s kind of like recording the sound of someone farting, using that recording to test a speaker, and then complaining that the speaker made a farting noise during the listening session.

 

Best analogy ever. :emotion-21:

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