Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
wvu80

Gun safe failure - need help (resolved)

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

@carlthess40 has been working with my son Scott, and the news for getting this thing open is not good.

 

As Carl said the technical non-support people have not been helpful.  Three weeks after he contacted him they just now informed him they can NOT simply send him a new keypad, as that keypad is now discontinued.  They are going to send him a new keypad/lock mechanism but it's up to him to figure out how to get the safe opened and installed. 

 

I suggested trying to find a used keypad on Ebay but already thought about that and Canon told him there are several versions and there is no guarantee that a used one would be the correct one, and no guarantee it wasn't already broken.

 

Canon won't release any technical information except to locksmiths so he doesn't even know where to drill so he doesn't trash the safe which would cost about $1500 to replace. 

 

He is moving to Plan B which is to use a magnet with a 350 pound pull to try to get the solenoid to release, then he could simply turn the handles to open the safe.  Canon also won't tell him exactly where the solenoid is so he knows where to work the magnet.  Carl has helped him with some general idea on the location which is more than what Canon has done.

 

I hate to see him trash a nice safe (which I got for him) but he's running out of options.  He's off this week so he's going to spend some more time working on it.  We'll see how it comes out.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Once he gets the replacement lock mechanism he may be able to determine where that solenoid is located or where to drill that bugger. Also if you can locate another safe like this one you could examine that mechanism insitu, template the stuff and use that as your reference. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[mention=35591]carlthess40[/mention] has been working with my son Scott, and the news for getting this thing open is not good.
 
As Carl said the technical non-support people have not been helpful.  Three weeks after he contacted him they just now informed him they can NOT simply send him a new keypad, as that keypad is now discontinued.  They are going to send him a new keypad/lock mechanism but it's up to him to figure out how to get the safe opened and installed. 
 
I suggested trying to find a used keypad on Ebay but already thought about that and Canon told him there are several versions and there is no guarantee that a used one would be the correct one, and no guarantee it wasn't already broken.
 
Canon won't release any technical information except to locksmiths so he doesn't even know where to drill so he doesn't trash the safe which would cost about $1500 to replace. 
 
He is moving to Plan B which is to use a magnet with a 350 pound pull to try to get the solenoid to release, then he could simply turn the handles to open the safe.  Canon also won't tell him exactly where the solenoid is so he knows where to work the magnet.  Carl has helped him with some general idea on the location which is more than what Canon has done.
 
I hate to see him trash a nice safe (which I got for him) but he's running out of options.  He's off this week so he's going to spend some more time working on it.  We'll see how it comes out.

I'd hire a locksmith, take my lumps $$$ wise, and trash talk the company without hesitation. Lesson learned and research/buy a safe that has customer support worth a shite. What a disaster of a company! SMH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, baron167 said:


I'd hire a locksmith, take my lumps $$$ wise, and trash talk the company without hesitation. Lesson learned and research/buy a safe that has customer support worth a shite. What a disaster of a company! SMH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just remember you get what you pay for..

 

make sure you do your homework..

 

when buying the new one !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, mungkiman said:

Is it worth trying more than one battery, joined in parallel?

 

maybe the solenoid is stuck or jammed.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, mungkiman said:

Is it worth trying more than one battery, joined in parallel?

 

Interesting.  What is your theory?

 

The safe has been opened hundreds of times.  The battery seems to have died meaning no beeps, and 5 or 6 replacements have not worked.  A new battery allows the keypad to beep.  There is a Clear function and any time the keypad is punched is beeps once , which is what it's supposed to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, whatever55 said:

maybe the solenoid is stuck or jammed.....

That is interesting as well.

 

The whole problem started with the battery dying and the combo could not be input.  Even with a new battery there is no success.  The keypad itself is a dumb terminal with the combination actually being kept in the lock mechanism.

 

The plan now is to try a large rare earth magnet which will move the solenoid.  If you are thinking he could bounce the safe around (like on some Youtube vids) this safe weighs 400 pounds and isn't bouncing anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extra amperage to draw sticking solenoid...if it applies 

Be interesting to be able to hear if any clicking or humming occurs when the solenoid SHOULD be retracting 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good idea, solenoids can stick, at this point, there is nothing to lose. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Use a very large dead blow hammer when trying this. Hit it all around the key pad. Mostly the 9 to 12 o-clock places

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, dtel said:

Good idea, solenoids can stick, at this point, there is nothing to lose. 

Here's a description of the problem, the way I see it from my ignorant (low information) viewpoint:

 

The safe opening, solenoid, keypad, locking mechanism, everything was fine for a year.  The battery went out to where the keypad would not enter information, no beeps as would be expected after tapping a numerical button.  AFTER the battery replacement, the keypad now beeps as expected but the locking mechanism does not respond.

 

Comment:  To my thinking, a simple battery replacement should have fixed everything.  What went wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, carlthess40 said:

Use a very large dead blow hammer when trying this. Hit it all around the key pad. Mostly the 9 to 12 o-clock places

What is a dead blow hammer?  And what is the purpose, ie what are we trying to accomplish?  Is the assumption the solenoid is somehow stuck?

 

My concern, maybe my thinking is that there is a known issue with "bad" keypads.  My problem is I have never read or seen what the actual keypad problem is.  Does it not "talk" to the lock mechanism?  As was suggested earlier, is the current provided by the single 9v battery too low?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 The lock mechanism can not require much force if a low voltage solenoid can operate it, they are not very powerful. 

 

I would think there is either an electrical problem or computer problem with the lock mechanism. Or the solenoid is stuck IF it is getting the electrical signal to open, it may not be getting the signal? I think this was the hammer idea, hit it when it should be trying to open, to free the solenoid it if it is stuck.

 

Almost reminds me of a car with a dead battery, when the battery is replaced the computer has to completely reset itself but this is not as complicated and may not be able to reset itself?

Wonder if this is not a common problem with this safe and it's why the company has no reply or help having no answer.

Has he tried to short out across the battery connections with a wire (with no batteries) to make sure there is no electricity still in the mechanism, in case there is some type of capacitor holding a charge possibly preventing the mechanism from resetting?

 

It's obvious I'm not an electrical engineer, maybe it's a silly question.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, wvu80 said:

What went wrong?

The only thing originally replaced was the battery?  Were any electronic pieces unplugged as part of the battery replacement?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, wvu80 said:

What is a dead blow hammer?

It normally has sand or shot inside a hollow chamber inside of the head of the hammer.  There's no bounce as you strike something.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:
7 hours ago, wvu80 said:

What went wrong?

The only thing originally replaced was the battery?  Were any electronic pieces unplugged as part of the battery replacement?

Correct.  Nothing was unplugged at the initial failure.  It was later the keypad was unplugged.

 

In case something would go wrong you are supposed to open the door and then replace the battery.  The battery died so the door could not be opened so there was no other choice.  Upon replacing the battery, the keypad was responsive with a BEEP every time a button was pressed, but the safe never opened.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wvu80 said:

Correct.  Nothing was unplugged at the initial failure.  It was later the keypad was unplugged.

 

In case something would go wrong you are supposed to open the door and then replace the battery.  The battery died so the door could not be opened so there was no other choice.  Upon replacing the battery, the keypad was responsive with a BEEP every time a button was pressed, but the safe never opened.

 

So the battery is actually inside the safe?  How did you replace it then or is there more than one door?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Im not mistaken, the battery is in the keypad which simply unlocks and pops off like the top of a smoke detector and has a wire that feeds into the safe. I would make sure this wire connection is good and doesn't have a dropped pin on a plug  or anything.  A few blows to the front is the next step to see if the solenoid is frozen.  Just put a 2x4 on the front and hit on it. What is there to lose at this point?  I think a lawyer's letter stating "company known flaw or defective keypad" might get your son a new safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...