Jump to content

K horns vs B & W 801 Matrix speakers


Zappa Freak

Recommended Posts

Trade which way?   I hope that later for the former?   I haven't heard that particular set of b&ws, but I have heard plenty of their older models.  Very different presentation of sound.   B&W stuff that I have heard was VERY laid back/polite and a bit bass shy for my taste. If you own klipsch, which I'm sure you do, you know they are quite different.  Depends on your listening habits too.... Those b&w will run out of steam much faster than klipschorns, obviously.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  I had a pair of the 801 Matrix S2. They were very nice. Extremely flat frequency response. Wide range also. If the Anniversary is S1 it is not as good as the S2. I think the S2 is better than latter models also.

  Dynamics is the weak link for the B&W. It is the strength of the Klipschorn. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grain is quite nice on those khorns.   Reveneered or original?   If you are on the fence, Def have a LONG unpressured listen to those 801s.... You will have to decide for yourself.  If the khorns don't work in your room for some reason, the runner up LA scalas would surely be excellent in most rooms with or without sub(s).  I agree with the above on dynamics, volume aside.   Not to mention difference in Amplifier choices.... Wouldn't be a trade I would make, wouldn't have to think about it.   What don't you like about the klipschorns? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love the K horns less the size, my La Scala have Bob's crossover and tweeter upgrades and the sound is close to the K Horns.

I also have Chorus II, Klf -30, Kg 5.5, Cornwall's, Heresy, Academy(center) RC64, well lots of Klipsch.

 

Just thought may be a good trade for my K horns maybe not just wanted some opinions as I value the expertise of my fellow Members.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Grain is quite nice on those khorns.   Reveneered or original?   If you are on the fence, Def have a LONG unpressured listen to those 801s.... You will have to decide for yourself.  If the khorns don't work in your room for some reason, the runner up LA scalas would surely be excellent in most rooms with or without sub(s).  I agree with the above on dynamics, volume aside.   Not to mention difference in Amplifier choices.... Wouldn't be a trade I would make, wouldn't have to think about it.   What don't you like about the klipschorns? 

original 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your La Scalas sound close to your Klipschorns? Yeah, OK. Is that with your Klipschorns placed properly in corners? Don't get me wrong, I have both and like them very much. Not trying to be a smart ***, but as good as La Scalas sound, Klipschorns sound better and don't take up space because they are in corners. My La Scalas take up way more space and sound great. My Klipschorns sound better and are barely noticeable in their corners of the room they are in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, baron167 said:

Your La Scalas sound close to your Klipschorns? Yeah, OK. Is that with your Klipschorns placed properly in corners? Don't get me wrong, I have both and like them very much. Not trying to be a smart ***, but as good as La Scalas sound, Klipschorns sound better and don't take up space because they are in corners. My La Scalas take up way more space and sound great. My Klipschorns sound better and are barely noticeable in their corners of the room they are in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wasn't going to say that, but absolutely agree.   Although the klipschorns are very large, you barely notice them after awhile (the floor space they take up). 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

 Although the klipschorns are very large, you barely notice them after awhile (the floor space they take up). 

I agree completely, It's a paradox.

 

The two 175 pound monsters are not visually obtrusive when placed in corners because they are in your peripheral vision and for the most part you only see out of the center of your eye.  My tall but razor thin RF-83's are on each side of the TV and they are always visible in the field of vision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/22/2018 at 1:39 PM, Panelhead said:

Dynamics is the weak link for the B&W. It is the strength of the Klipschorn

 

Agreed.  The Klipschorn is more than 10 times as efficient.  If you have a 3000 or 4000 cu. ft. room, and sit 13 feet away, to get what PWK called "the blood stirring levels of a live symphony orchestra" you would "need 115 dB at your ears."    Through a Klipschorn, this would require about a 100 watt amplifier, or a little less .  Through a B&W 801 series 2 (sensitivity of about 87 dB, 2.83v, 1M).  you would need an amplifier of about 1,000 watts, or more!  Of course, it would just be rather brief peaks that would be at that level. 

 

When I compared the 801F, in A/B tests, and long term tests, to the 1982 Klipschorn, I found that the B & W was a little more polite, but much less impressive on dynamics.  The Khorn had much clearer, "snappier" bass, but did not go quite as low, BUT the Pipe organ was overwhelming on the Khorns, even though their bass did not go quite as low.  Wind instruments sounded very real on the Khorn, and drums were simply marvelous.  As to "air" and detail, the best I can say, is the two speaker had different kinds ... it took prolonged listening to notice the type of detail at which the B&W excelled, but the other type of detail (on the part of other instruments, which were not quite so "buried" in the orchestra as with the B&W) that was better on the Khorns was immediately apparent.  

 

I bought the Khorns.

 

I don't know what changes have been made in the 801 since the F.   The Khorns later had the tweeter front mounted, for less diffraction and more dispersion, and the K400 midrange horn was replaced with the K401, and the crossovers are different .  Klipsch sells upgrades for the Khorn, and I installed these -- very little difference, perhaps a bit better response from the tweeter.  A new tweeter was introduced in 2018 (Klipschorn AK6).

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Never had the B&W, so my comment is of limited value. I will share that I have been fortunate to have AB several pair of speakers, and only when side-by-side AB was there a difference that can be found. Most of the time I was excited and something else would follow me home to listen to them in the my main room. There was always a crispness and accuracy that would standout. Except for some industrial Klipsch, the Khorn have sent everything else packing. 

 

The struggle for more / different is real. Good luck. 😎

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/22/2018 at 5:25 PM, wvu80 said:

they are in your peripheral vision and for the most part you only see out of the center of your eye. 

 

@wvu80,

 

On behalf of peripheral vision:

 

Yes, the Klipschorns tend to disappear into the corners.   I am always aware of them in the blurred periphery, however.  My Khorns are about 60 degrees apart, tweeter to tweeter.  The lower the light the better, I guess.  They provide hilariously good sonic imaging when the room is plunged into total darkness.  While high resolution vision is about 15 degrees wide, provided by the fovea, the blurred peripheral vision (about 200 degrees total field, with both eyes, not the 145 degree figure sold to the public, and landing in a few textbooks, thanks to Cinerama advertisements) is very important, and we scan it often, sometimes without realizing it. 

 

It should be said that my wife likes the appearance of the Khorns, and thinks they look "elegant."

 

The following is off the Khorn topic, but on the vision one.  As a nearly lifelong fan of huge, deeply curving movie screens, I must say a few words about the benefits of  wide angle viewing, despite the 15 degree width of foveal vision at any given moment.  Our home 2.35:1 screen (flat, unfortunately) occupies about 50 degrees of horizontal space (130 inches wide) from the viewing position, stretching from Khorn to Khorn.   The effect is quite immersive sometimes, and not so much at other times (depending on the cinematography).  Todd-AO, Panavisionm etc., in their 70mm incarnations were about 70 degrees wide on the screen, from my usual seat (I tried for row 10, or so).  Peripheral vision is said to increase the feeling of depth,

non-stereoscopically, and this is most pronounced when the taking lens is a wide angle one.   Camera lenses tend to be modest in their coverage.  Hasselblad had a 90 degree one for a while.  The most extraordinary lens for Todd-AO was the 128 degree bug-eye lens, nicknamed "Bugs."   image.png.e741961121bafe6a6f47a0466be49b55.png

There was some distortion, but lots of depth.   image.png.bf1adbb39a658a19b15c85aa93bed93b.png

 

I can't believe they didn't print that rail station with curved surface correction, like it was on the prints that ran through the projector:

image.png.36a35c5bf1209efdac3de46031da41c1.png

 

 

image.png.d8a081c3475182d1b897e985836ace49.png

 

Anyway, getting the eyes to sweep over a wide field -- just like in life -- may also increase the sense of reality.

 

Enough!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, garyrc said:

Yes, the Klipschorns tend to disappear into the corners.   I am always aware of them in the blurred periphery, however.  My Khorns are about 60 degrees apart, tweeter to tweeter.

My Khorns were black and much lower than the current RF-83's.  In a dark room mine did literally disappear, not so much with the RF-83's which are illuminated by the TV.

+++

 

Since you are a fan of science you might enjoy reading the science behind how big the TV should be and how much of your peripheral vision is ideal for a particular screen size vs seating distance.

 

Quote

 

Bigger and closer is usually better when it comes to choosing the perfect television for your room. Not only is it the biggest factor affecting the price of a television, but it also has a huge impact on the perceived picture quality.

 

The Guidelines from the Society of Motion Picture & Television Engineers recommends sitting at a distance where the screen fills up about 30° of your field of vision as a minimum for a good experience.

 

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-size/size-to-distance-relationship

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...