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Gianni

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Hi to everyone, I searched a section for introducing myself unsuccessfully, so I write here my introduction and my question
I'm Gianni from Italy, and since one week, I'm new owner of a pair of RP600M.
These are drived by a Denon PMA520ae, used before, for a pair of Paradigm Atom Monitor v.7.
The source is a Netbook whit Daphile Player, Beredsford DAC and AudioDG USB-interface.
At glance, the sound of new Klipsch is a bit less open in the treble respect the old Paradigm.
This is normal or there need a break-in long-time?
Thanks alot,
Gianni

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Hi!

I'm in a similar situation as you: last week, I bought a pair of RP160-M speakers, which are almost identical to your RP600Ms. I use a Denon M41D microsystem. I mostly play CDs and use Qobuz.com for streaming music (on a Amazon Fire tablet). The streaming is mp3 at 320Kbs.

Although I bought them as new, the box had been opened, so I think mine were in the shop as demo speakers for a while and have been broken in already. Even so, I think they are still breaking in. On my system, I really love their sound.

Make sure you put them at least 1.8m apart (or more) and on a stand or table (the horn should at ear-level). Invest some time in rearranging your room, if necessary.

Klipsch speakers are very bright in the treble area (high notes). Make sure the cables make good contact.

Edited by LeftEyeShooter
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14 hours ago, LeftEyeShooter said:

Hi!

I'm in a similar situation as you: last week, I bought a pair of RP160-M speakers, which are almost identical to your RP600Ms. I use a Denon M41D microsystem. I mostly play CDs and use Qobuz.com for streaming music (on a Amazon Fire tablet). The streaming is mp3 at 320Kbs.

Although I bought them as new, the box had been opened, so I think mine were in the shop as demo speakers for a while and have been broken in already. Even so, I think they are still breaking in. On my system, I really love their sound.

Make sure you put them at least 1.8m apart (or more) and on a stand or table (the horn should at ear-level). Invest some time in rearranging your room, if necessary.

Klipsch speakers are very bright in the treble area (high notes). Make sure the cables make good contact.

Thank you LeftEyeShooter,
My room is heavy fittings, whit a wall library, sofa and paints on the walls. The speakers are at 2.40m and I sit on the vertex of triangle at 2m.
Today, I played a duo: female voice and double bass and the voice was clear and light.
So I think they do not forgive bad recording...
Also, I think that the next step is change the bridge on the rear connector whit a cable... stay tuned!

 

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2 hours ago, Gianni said:

Thank you LeftEyeShooter,
My room is heavy fittings, whit a wall library, sofa and paints on the walls. The speakers are at 2.40m and I sit on the vertex of triangle at 2m.
Today, I played a duo: female voice and double bass and the voice was clear and light.
So I think they do not forgive bad recording...
Also, I think that the next step is change the bridge on the rear connector whit a cable... stay tuned!

 

Same experience here: some recordings disappoint with these speakers, while other recordings open up and shine. And it is hard to predict which way it will go...

Make sure the bi-amping plate is well placed, and both both screws are tight.

Edited by LeftEyeShooter
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Don't worry about replacing the jumper between speaker terminals.  Think in terms of room acoustics.  The biggest difference between your old speakers (the Atoms were well regarded) and your new Klipsch is the dispersion pattern in the upper registers, and that in turn means they'll interact with your room in rather different ways.  As you play with placement and orientation you will notice the differences in how they interact with your room, so I suggest you start there.  For example, due to the comparably narrow pattern the Klipsch throw, you can get away with placement in closer proximity to walls and/or corners (which reinforces the lower registers and produces a warmer tonal balance), and be sure to at least try extreme toe-in/crossfire orientation (which keeps you from spraying side walls with high frequency hard first reflections, while preserving tonally correct late reflections, and coincidentally expands and stabilizes the "sweet spot").  Your new Klipsch will give you the chance to mitigate your room's influence in ways that the Atoms simply couldn't.  When you mitigate the room's influence, you hear deeper into your recordings.  So play around with it, and enjoy the music while you do.

 

And keep in mind they're new to you, so give it some time.  It's not the speakers that are breaking in (highly unlikely) as much as you becoming acclimated to them.   

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Welcome :smile:

Good advice from SkiBum, play with speakers as adviced and soon you should be more familiar with them. 

I had similar questions with my RF line, and playing with placement was beneficial. However, that tweeter was sharp on many tunes, so the speakers went to bedroom.

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On 12/24/2018 at 4:54 PM, Ski Bum said:

Don't worry about replacing the jumper between speaker terminals.  Think in terms of room acoustics.  The biggest difference between your old speakers (the Atoms were well regarded) and your new Klipsch is the dispersion pattern in the upper registers, and that in turn means they'll interact with your room in rather different ways.  As you play with placement and orientation you will notice the differences in how they interact with your room, so I suggest you start there.  For example, due to the comparably narrow pattern the Klipsch throw, you can get away with placement in closer proximity to walls and/or corners (which reinforces the lower registers and produces a warmer tonal balance), and be sure to at least try extreme toe-in/crossfire orientation (which keeps you from spraying side walls with high frequency hard first reflections, while preserving tonally correct late reflections, and coincidentally expands and stabilizes the "sweet spot").  Your new Klipsch will give you the chance to mitigate your room's influence in ways that the Atoms simply couldn't.  When you mitigate the room's influence, you hear deeper into your recordings.  So play around with it, and enjoy the music while you do.

 

And keep in mind they're new to you, so give it some time.  It's not the speakers that are breaking in (highly unlikely) as much as you becoming acclimated to them.   

Thank you Ski Bum.
I keep in mind your tips but the room is untouchable (cause wife supervisions  :( ) so the placement and orientation is very hard to do.
However, in these days, the sound is quite better in the middle-high frequency, so (as you reminder me) I think that my ears acclimated the new sound and, at middle volume, the sound now is very complete, but remains neutral and enjoyable.
The lack is when I play music at low volume for example during a dinner, or conversation, but I find a solution for that, playing whit the amp tone settings

 

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On 12/25/2018 at 5:57 PM, parlophone1 said:

Welcome :smile:

Good advice from SkiBum, play with speakers as adviced and soon you should be more familiar with them. 

I had similar questions with my RF line, and playing with placement was beneficial. However, that tweeter was sharp on many tunes, so the speakers went to bedroom.

Nice to meet you parlophone.
I keep in mind the SkiBum advice... but I don't understand the relation between tweeter and bedroom.... 🤔

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Hi Gianni,

I believe the bedroom has a lot of soft objects to absorb the high frequencies. The pillows, bed covers, quilts, etc. Not as many hard surfaces and reflections.

 

Welcome to the forums.

 

Bruce

 

 

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On 12/28/2018 at 2:32 AM, Gianni said:

middle volume, the sound now is very complete, but remains neutral and enjoyable.
The lack is when I play music at low volume for example during a dinner, or conversation,

That's just your ears insensitivity to low frequencies at low volumes, described by the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness contours.  Adding some bass via tone controls is A-ok to address it. 

 

[edit: I see your Denon has a "loudness" button on it, how old school!  That would work better than the tone controls to restore tonal balance at low listening levels.  Give it a try.  Also realize that your speakers are more sensitive than average, so there is a chance that the Denon's loudness control will be more pronounced than it would on less sensitive speakers.  If that's the case, you may require less eq than the loudness control applies, and a more modest adjustment using the tone controls rather than engaging the loudness button may be warranted.  There is nothing wrong with using your tone controls or loudness eq to get more pleasing or natural sounding results, regardless of what the golden eared "tone controls are bad, m'kay" crowd will tell you.]

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On 12/28/2018 at 10:40 AM, Gianni said:

Nice to meet you parlophone.
I keep in mind the SkiBum advice... but I don't understand the relation between tweeter and bedroom.... 🤔

 

Sorry for not being clear enough, but I did not want to go into many details about that.

Of course there is no connection between tweeter and bedroom (other than the bedroom is smaller that my main listening room). Just wanted to say that I did not want to spend too much time to adjust these speakers to my liking, so I placed them into my bedroom and listen to them occasionally as my second system.

As regards the tweeter, I can not say it is bad. On the contrary, I believe this is the best part of the speaker. Detailed enough, it can excite emotions. However, in most recordings it is on the edge of being too bright. I tried speakers with transistor and tube amplification, no significant change in sound.

HF driver+horn combo in RP line of speakers are supposed be more polite that RF line, so you probably have less to worry about.

 

I was also pleasantly surprised with clarity of the speakers when I first listened to them. At that time I did not know much better, so these were my faithful companions for a year or two.

As we all grow with time, we notice many other things in sound.

Occasionally I visit live concerts, meaning classical and acoustic music. So I have a good idea how many musical instruments should sound. After a period of time the speakers in my system sounded tonally a kind of wrong. I have a strong feeling that I mixed clarity of sound against speakers being too bright and slightly clinical. Also, other issues surfaced, like difficult integration of bas, some frequencies are subdued or missing (I still am convinced that is partly connected with room acoustics), etc.

But for the money, it is a good speaker.

Playing with their placement in a room was beneficial. However, my speakers proved to be pretty difficult to get it right. It is a floorstander but a small one, so they are not a good companions with big spaces. Bas-reflex took some time to adjust it right. After a lot of time, I found a position that I am a sort of satisfied. It is about 8 inches to the rear and side walls. Also the speaker cables are connected to the bottom jumpers at the rear of the speakers. Toed in so that the tweeter lines intersect a bit behind my ears. Moving a speaker just a fraction of an inch left or right messed up the imaging. 

 

 

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On 12/28/2018 at 11:42 AM, Marvel said:

Hi Gianni,

I believe the bedroom has a lot of soft objects to absorb the high frequencies. The pillows, bed covers, quilts, etc. Not as many hard surfaces and reflections.

 

Welcome to the forums.

 

Bruce

 

 

Nice to meet you Bruce.

Yes, the room has lot of objects that absorb the high frequency, but in this days, the sound is better anyway... and now I'm very satisfied!

Edited by Gianni
Grammar error!
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On 12/30/2018 at 9:48 PM, Ski Bum said:

[edit: I see your Denon has a "loudness" button on it, how old school!  That would work better than the tone controls to restore tonal balance at low listening levels.  Give it a try.  Also realize that your speakers are more sensitive than average, so there is a chance that the Denon's loudness control will be more pronounced than it would on less sensitive speakers.  If that's the case, you may require less eq than the loudness control applies, and a more modest adjustment using the tone controls rather than engaging the loudness button may be warranted.  There is nothing wrong with using your tone controls or loudness eq to get more pleasing or natural sounding results, regardless of what the golden eared "tone controls are bad, m'kay" crowd will tell you.]

Yes! The loudness control!
I tried to use this control and, obvious, the sound is dramatically change!
But now, after playing my music for a long time, the sound is more better also with the button "Direct Mode" actived. 
I have more definition in treble, more channel separation and the bass is controlled.
And in the room, nothing has been change, and also the system is the same.
I'm very satisfed now! The sound is more natural and equilibrated...
Thank you for your support!

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On 1/2/2019 at 9:38 AM, parlophone1 said:

 

Sorry for not being clear enough, but I did not want to go into many details about that.

Of course there is no connection between tweeter and bedroom (other than the bedroom is smaller that my main listening room). Just wanted to say that I did not want to spend too much time to adjust these speakers to my liking, so I placed them into my bedroom and listen to them occasionally as my second system.

As regards the tweeter, I can not say it is bad. On the contrary, I believe this is the best part of the speaker. Detailed enough, it can excite emotions. However, in most recordings it is on the edge of being too bright. I tried speakers with transistor and tube amplification, no significant change in sound.

HF driver+horn combo in RP line of speakers are supposed be more polite that RF line, so you probably have less to worry about.

 

I was also pleasantly surprised with clarity of the speakers when I first listened to them. At that time I did not know much better, so these were my faithful companions for a year or two.

As we all grow with time, we notice many other things in sound.

Occasionally I visit live concerts, meaning classical and acoustic music. So I have a good idea how many musical instruments should sound. After a period of time the speakers in my system sounded tonally a kind of wrong. I have a strong feeling that I mixed clarity of sound against speakers being too bright and slightly clinical. Also, other issues surfaced, like difficult integration of bas, some frequencies are subdued or missing (I still am convinced that is partly connected with room acoustics), etc.

But for the money, it is a good speaker.

Playing with their placement in a room was beneficial. However, my speakers proved to be pretty difficult to get it right. It is a floorstander but a small one, so they are not a good companions with big spaces. Bas-reflex took some time to adjust it right. After a lot of time, I found a position that I am a sort of satisfied. It is about 8 inches to the rear and side walls. Also the speaker cables are connected to the bottom jumpers at the rear of the speakers. Toed in so that the tweeter lines intersect a bit behind my ears. Moving a speaker just a fraction of an inch left or right messed up the imaging. 

 

 

Thank you so much Parlophone... no problem about my question... for me is a new experience of read and write in a foreign forum, and I don't know very well the technical terms or phrases  for appassionate listener... so, I'm was a little disorientented...
Your thinking regarding the real listening versus the reproducing system and the solutions that you have make for rebuilt the original sound are very interesting.
And also, I think that the position of the speakers is really, another  "fine tuning" of the system of reproduction...
For this, your indication regarding the position of the speakers, in so that the tweeter lines intersect behind the ears is very interesting to try!
However, in this days, the sound that comes out of these new speakers is very changed in better, and now I have more details and stage... I find finally, the sound that I wanted...
Thank you again....

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