KLF-20 upgrade

[alexanderfa]

Hi,
I own a pair of KLF-20. They are very nice and clear when you listen to vocals and organs but a little harsh when listen to rock and metal
Does anyone has experience in upgrading them?
Should I replace the K52 midrange phenolic  diagrams to titanium? Or better to a new aftermarket midrange driver?

[Deang]

The problem is your rock and metal recordings, not the speaker. With that said, you can make them a bit more forgiving by replacing the oval epoxy polyester OEM capacitors with polypropylene. 

 

Do do not go to titanium unless you want your ears completely shredded. Stay with phenolic. 

 

Start with the simplest and least expensive - the crossovers. 

[moray james]

it is most likely that your KLF20 were shipped out with poly tweeter diaphragms as most were. You can switch to a new set of Bob Crites Titanium diaphragms. You don't have to pull the tweeters just use a flashlight and a look into the throat of the tweeter horn, you can see the diaphragm. If you see a black shiny diaphragm then you have the poly.

   Some folks have the ability to hear the resonant mode of the ti diaphragms most not. For those folks titanium is a no go and aluminum is much better, fortunately this is a fairly small group of people. If you have listened to the newer Klipsch floor standers and liked them then you don't have a problem with titanium. This is really a problem for some but if you are in that group there is another way around this simply buy a set of used phenolic diaphragms which are used in all the Heritage speakers they are smooth and warm sounding. As Dean mentions better caps is always a good option as well.

[MEH Synergy]

1 minute ago, Deang said:

The problem is your rock and metal recordings, not the speaker. With that said, you can make them a bit more forgiving by replacing the oval epoxy polyester OEM capacitors with polypropylene. 

 

Do do not go to titanium unless you want your ears completely shredded. Stay with phenolic. 

 

Start with the simplest and least expensive - the crossovers. 

I disagree.  I listen to rock and metal and have had several sets of speakers  with Titanium Tweeters (klipsch and other brands) .  Unless the recording is quite old and or of poor quality perhaps, I rarely experience this.   I think it is more components up stream and positioning (perhaps the quality of your files as in low quality MP3) .   Toeing speakers out in small amounts at a time from the tweeters firing straight at your ears or crossing can also help with this.   Or space the speakers farther apart if you are able. 

[geoff.]

@alexanderfa welcome to the forum!

 

Some solid advice by some very, correction VERY, knowledgeable individuals here.

 

Replace the old capacitors if you are able. Lots of discussion on here about that.

 

Titanium tweeters - YES !  This is almost not optional, especially if yours have those “black shiny poly diaphragms”.

 

Titanium midrange - not so much, lol. 

 

Amp and source are huge to this equation, as stated, too. Klipsch are very revealing speakers.

 

The thing about Klipsch is that even though they don’t require many watts to sing, those dual woofers WILL know what to do with the extra watts.  The difference between MOST lower powered amps and their higher powered siblings has been day and night in the bass department from my experience. 

 

With more authority in the bass and better high frequency response, the midrange will mellow out in comparison.

 

 

[Dave A]

As Dean says on the capacitors.

 

I just got in 4 Kp-101's which are right at the age of the KLF's you have. Every capacitor in all four but one measured at least .3 ESR although the capacitance was in tolerance. First thing I did was replace them all for an immediate more musical sound. Sometimes I like Ti sometimes I don't and since the crossovers all get rebuilt I have to suspect some horn lenses and drivers get shrill with Ti while others don't seem to act that way. If it is a speaker problem my experience has been the only cure for shrill has at times been to replace the tweeter. I also like those old phenolic diaphragms too. Mid range has not been the shrill culprit for what I have had here.

 

 

1 hour ago, Deang said:

The problem is your rock and metal recordings, not the speaker.

As Dean also says above. I just swapped a music library with a guy who had a TON of albums in there and the total file size per album was typically 70 to 80mb. None of them played well and all have to be redone through Audacity the editing program to be OK. Some seem to be hopeless and I don't know what his source was but I would have quickly looked elsewhere. Look up "Audacity" on the forums and Chris A has excellent information on this.

 

 I tell people to bring their music here when they come to buy speakers so they have a reference point they can relate to. Then I take their files and run it through Audacity and normally they are 44kbs. I jump that up to 96 or 192kbs  and go to effects and normalize it with the settings to "0" and export the file with the highest settings which are level 8 and 24 bit. 3/4ths or more of the music just comes alive and it is funny to see the look on their faces. Audacity is a free program and is the #1 cheapest way to improve your sound and find out if your file is even worth keeping. #2 is capacitors which I always do now before I seriously fire them up since nothing that old has measured well here in dozens of sets of speakers. #3 replace the tweeter diaphragm gives improvement normally but replacing the tweeter always does. My experience for what it is worth.

 

  Westcoast also makes good points. Many think crossing your speakers to focus just before or after your sweet spot seat is best and then there is another thought about this and see the attachment. Also "RF-7 III...Trying to achieve better off-center imaging" search for that thread. Good sound is the sum of more than one part.

 

  When you get into more musical speakers they reveal the ugly just as well as the pretty except unlike cheesy speakers they make the ugly sound really ugly.

Setup of WG Speakers.pdf

[SWL]

It's simple. All you gotta do is.....

Treat your room

Mod the hell out of those speakers

EQ the hell out of those speakers

Get a bad a$$ amp.....

Then you can jam some hard rock/ heavy metal and afterwards you'll say 'Man, that was worth it!'

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Shiva]

A thing worth mentioning as well is how are your KLF 20's powered.  Any particular rock and metal music CD's that sound harsh to you on them. 

[alexanderfa]

Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

I will start with crossover, which brand for capacitors do you suggest?

My main amplifier is Yamaha A-S2000 but also use a homemade EL34 PP

DAC: Soekris DAM1021

Turntable: Linn Sondek LP12 with Denon DL-103

I don’t think the problem is the recordings I can understand a good one from a bad one.

I have made several tests from CD, Vinyl, Spotify.

These speakers don’t go well with bad recordings and distortion(rock-metal)!

 

[Deang]

37 minutes ago, alexanderfa said:

I will start with crossover, which brand for capacitors do you suggest?

I would use film and tin foil only (not metalized). 

 

(x4) 2uF AudioCap PPT Theta for the tweeters. 

 

For the primary, you need  (x2) 1.25uF. I would do that by paralleling two Dayton Audio .47uF and a .33uF film and foil bypass capacitors. 

 

Just replace the low pass capacitor with another electrolytic. 

 

Less than a $100 to do both speakers.

 

It can be done for much less with inexpensive metalized types, but you asked what I would use.  

 

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/film-and-foil-crossover-capacitors/295

[pzannucci]

The phenolic mid diaphragm will be the least harsh of any, just lacking very slightly in detail.  Stay with that set if your speakers are too crisp.  They will provide the least fatiguing output.