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joessportster

When does "X" become an addiction ?

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4 minutes ago, DMH said:

Joe's situation is a very severe problem that requires extremely specialized care. Simply using an exercise ball or inversion table won't do it. I believe in this video Dr. Bergman explains what can be done to help assist the body to heal after botched surgeries:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWlGszPkAhY

 

Anything is better than nothing. I am well aware of the severity of his situation. I work in a  higher level of care Healthcare facility that happens to specialize in such cases.  This is a strong case of something is better than nothing approach. If he doesn't want surgery again, all other options should be explored.  I am not a physical therapist and a quality therapist as such should be sought out. I would bet money he has seen several. The topic at hand is drug abuse or not. 

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Tough subject, I would think almost everyone has dealt with it or know of someone dealing with it, or worse.

 

I have been lucky and careful, but know many who weren't. My worst is Nicotine which is a big difference from trying to relieve pain causing a totally new problem.    

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25 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Anything is better than nothing. I am well aware of the severity of his situation. I work in a  higher level of care Healthcare facility that happens to specialize in such cases.  This is a strong case of something is better than nothing approach. If he doesn't want surgery again, all other options should be explored.  I am not a physical therapist and a quality therapist as such should be sought out. I would bet money he has seen several. The topic at hand is drug abuse or not. 

Actually that's not true. In Joe's situation "anything is not better than nothing". There is a technology to resolve his problem and it's not physical therapy. If he followed your advice he would end up with more problems.  If one gives advice, one should know something about the subject, preferably be an expert or refrain from giving one's opinions. When that someone gives erroneous advice he exposes his ignorance in the area.

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3 hours ago, DMH said:

Perhaps you should be asking why you have chronic pain? Maybe you could eliminate what's causing the pain and not have to take the pain killer?

Yeah.  Maybe you can, but maybe you can't.  I have had sporadic bouts of pains in various parts, such as back, groin, neck, shoulder stuff, etc. The pain can become pretty dang miserable and go on for months at a time.  I never took pain killers for them, except to try Aleve and other OTC stuff.  Mostly, I don't even do Aleve, etc. and just suck it up. 

 

I had a recent issue in my neck/shoulder/cervical spine area back in June 2018 which went on for 6 weeks.  It was the worst hell I ever experienced.  It scared me a bit to think things in my sleep, like, "If it requires surgery to try to fix this, I'd submit to it."  All I can say is thank goodness it went away after 6 weeks.  I don't know what caused the onset, and I don't know why it resolved.  I hope to never experience that again for fear I'd be questioning whether addiction becomes worth it.  If the hypothetical surgery would not have fixed my pain, I'd have become a pill-popper for sure.  Ughhh!

 

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9 minutes ago, DMH said:

Actually that's not true. In Joe's situation "anything is not better than nothing". There is a technology to resolve his problem and it's not physical therapy. If he followed your advice he would end up with more problems.  If one gives advice, one should know something about the subject, preferably be an expert or refrain from giving one's opinions. When that someone gives erroneous advice he exposes his ignorance in the area.

As I said, I'm NOT a physical therapist.    I am speaking from experience of patients and or family friends in similar situations I take care of.   You are his doctor are you?   Have you seen and ordered his scans?  You didn't?  That's weird, then apparently you aren't qualified on an opinon either.   I'm throwing out a couple things for him. I'm sure hes heard of and been down this road.   No harm, no foul.   What is your background since I know Jack shit about the subject?   Are you an orthopedic surgeon?  If not, I wouldn't guess you shit about the subject just as I apparently?  

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41 minutes ago, dtel said:

My worst is Nicotine

Mine, too, Brother!  For all my life and through my entire marriage, I smoked cigs - about 3/4 pack a day.  30 years of it.  I had a bout of the flu shortly after my divorce, and I decided, "I got rid of the wife (to put it nicely); now, it's time for the cigs."  Haven't smoked since.  I must abstain 100%, or else...  We smokers know exactly what I mean.

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@DMH

Is the expert, please seek consultation from him and him only. I am ignorant and know nothing on the subject, sorry to have posted.   

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To be fair, I skimmed through Joe's post and didn't read it in its entirety. Went back and reread fully.   As stated previously, I'm not an MD, apparently @DMH is.   My advise would have been towards cases far less severe than yours.   Wish you the best brotha.   

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Its all good fellas. Believe it or not I have an inversion table it was good before fusion but with rods and screws in the spine in 2 separate areas I would be afraid of pulling them in the opposing direction of there intended uses. if a screw comes loose or breaks it could mean bad things.  There are people much worse than I am, I count my blessings

 

This discussion is helping me see things differently, It weighed pretty heavy on my mind................I appreciate all advice and before starting any new therapy I would certainly consult my Dr.

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Since  were here...on the addiction inquiry...a few thoughts;

 

I heard it said that an addiction is when a person makes room in their normal proceeding through life so as to accomodate the addiction to a detrimental effect, or diminishment, of what otherwise would be a normal life.

 

Also, one who is addicted to opoids (for example)--truly addicted-- withdrawal symptoms set in within an hour if the next dose is missed. That withdrawal only progressively deepens until the next dose is taken. The withdrawal effect is pretty much terrifying.  RE:

https://www.ted.com/talks/travis_rieder_the_agony_of_opioid_withdrawal_and_what_doctors_should_tell_patients_about_it?language=en

To the extent withdrawal is present that indicates the extent an addiction is present.

 

A test question:  Who's in control of this?  You or "X"?

To the extent you are in control that is the extent you are not addicted.  

 

I suspect that a strong craving is quite probably indicitive of there being present a lack, or deficiency.  That deficiency could be emotional, or spiritual, or relational or anything.  A persistent and strong craving is an indicator and probably worth serious consideration as to finding/resolving what is driving that craving:  dig this--- so it isn't uncommon for people with low iron levels in their blood to have strong cravings to eat unusual things like excessive radishes, cardboard, dirt, chalk...about anything.

 

A final consideration: we're all addicted to something.

 

Like me...

 

I've been addicted...since a very, very young age...to food...can't get away from the stuff 🍔!

 

 

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8 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

As I said, I'm NOT a physical therapist.    I am speaking from experience of patients and or family friends in similar situations I take care of.   You are his doctor are you?   Have you seen and ordered his scans?  You didn't?  That's weird, then apparently you aren't qualified on an opinon either.   I'm throwing out a couple things for him. I'm sure hes heard of and been down this road.   No harm, no foul.   What is your background since I know Jack shit about the subject?   Are you an orthopedic surgeon?  If not, I wouldn't guess you shit about the subject just as I apparently?  

I would think at this point Joe is working with a neurologist and not an ortho. Might not seem like a big difference but spinal cord injuries are more complicated than knee replacement or most other structural surgeries,

If you can get some balm that has a 1:1 CBD THC ratio it takes a small amount to rub in and in 20-30 minutes relief starts to kick in. A 2 oz. jar is $45 but it goes a long way. A scrape the size of your thumb nail worked into your hands works wonders as it does for your neck and shoulders. 

 

Mark

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7 hours ago, 7heavenlyplaces said:

Since  were here...on the addiction inquiry...a few thoughts;

 

I heard it said that an addiction is when a person makes room in their normal proceeding through life so as to accomodate the addiction to a detrimental effect, or diminishment, of what otherwise would be a normal life.

 

Also, one who is addicted to opoids (for example)--truly addicted-- withdrawal symptoms set in within an hour if the next dose is missed. That withdrawal only progressively deepens until the next dose is taken. The withdrawal effect is pretty much terrifying.  RE:

https://www.ted.com/talks/travis_rieder_the_agony_of_opioid_withdrawal_and_what_doctors_should_tell_patients_about_it?language=en

To the extent withdrawal is present that indicates the extent an addiction is present.

 

A test question:  Who's in control of this?  You or "X"?

To the extent you are in control that is the extent you are not addicted.  

 

I suspect that a strong craving is quite probably indicitive of there being present a lack, or deficiency.  That deficiency could be emotional, or spiritual, or relational or anything.  A persistent and strong craving is an indicator and probably worth serious consideration as to finding/resolving what is driving that craving:  dig this--- so it isn't uncommon for people with low iron levels in their blood to have strong cravings to eat unusual things like excessive radishes, cardboard, dirt, chalk...about anything.

 

A final consideration: we're all addicted to something.

 

Like me...

 

I've been addicted...since a very, very young age...to food...can't get away from the stuff 🍔!

 

 

That video is one person speaking of his withdrawal, everyone is different. 120 mg (40mg 3 times a day??) is a good size dose and his program to get off the shit was too aggressive- FOR HIM. As I said everyone is different but most doctors would agree that Benzos (Xanax, Valium etc) are far more dangerous to withdraw from. Cold turkey with those WILL kill you and it happens far sooner than with opioids. Methadone is used for both heroin and Oxy addicts to great success. I am not a doctor so I may be way off base, but I really don't think Joe has an addiction. If you've never had extreme pain it's hard to comment on his desire to take them. Psychologically, he knows it will provide relief but also understands the downslope can be steep. Get the balm or candy and see what happens. You will be amazed how well it works but again your tolerance goes up so you have to consume more as time goes on.

 

Mark

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12 hours ago, DMH said:

Maybe you could eliminate what's causing the pain and not have to take the pain killer?

 

 

 that can be a simple solution.  My wife tells me that.  Except, little things, like standing up, reaching can put me to the floor. I can't count how many times I have been turtled for no real reason.  I do temper my activities, but can't stop living because I might hurt myself. I don't know when I will go down. I can understand shoveling rock and lifting bags of dog food. But, when I have 3 frig bananas take me down... You can't stop because there is a chance....

 

there is another thing to consider when you take the "I might hurt" course.  Exercise is good. Doing less is an easy downward spiral.

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a little levity

 

  the last time I went down, it takes a couple weeks to get back to "normal", I was so proud of getting to the toilet w/o crawling... Finished my business and ,only then,  realized, I couldn't reach the toilet paper ... immediately to my side.

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@joessportster

Did Dr. Kwon in Clt do your fusion?

He is an absolute top notch person and doctor, in case you aren't aware.

 

Did it for five vertebrae for my mother in about 2008. Unfortunately when two more discs had degenerated one above and one below she declined another operation to include those. It would have been a much more intensive operation to pull the rods out and put in new longer ones.

 

He's on Randolph Rd. with all the other pricey docs towards downtown. His reviewing your info and advice would be well worth your time and money.

When her condition prevents her from being able to perform the post-operative therapy... she considers it a partial fail.

 

After that it's to the pain dr, only now he's an "addiction dr" knows full well her condition and cut her Rx by one third and notified us it was only the first reduction. He's a rude, cold hearted politician. Hippocratic Oath seems to not hold sway over lots of those as$h*les in the last decade.

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1st off very sorry to hear about your situation. I have 3 fused cervical vertebrae and do understand this arena. Have you looked into intrathecal pain pumps? They are indwelling systems specifically devised for situations like yours and may be a good choice for serious pain management. Others have mentioned physical therapy and I agree here too........ but it seems like a long shot given your description. The goal there would be for you to get enough core strength to better support your spine. Also, the appliances employed to fuse your vertebra are pretty tough once healed. I’ve heard of Harrington rods breaking but those are used in full length spinal fusions typically to stabilize scoliosis as opposed to spinal fusions. As for marijuana give it a try. I’ve heard various responses to mj therapy.

 

Others should hear your story. Getting old is not for sissies. As we age things wear out and erode away. Weird things grow where they shouldn’t and press on things that hurt. All of life’s various bumps take their collective toll. Personally I work diligently at the gym to remain strong and try to keep agile..... and I still ache daily. Just had the shoulder replaced. It had zero cartilage remaining. It rattled, creaked and hurt so bad all the time that it limited my life. It was going to freeze completely if nothing was done. 2 months posted op and my range and motion is near normal. It still hurts but in time that too will end. 

 

As for addiction to the pain meds. I’d say use them wisely. They’re working on new drugs all the time. Pain is big business and any breakthrough drug would be worth megabucks.

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4 hours ago, ZEUS121996 said:

That video is one person speaking of his withdrawal, everyone is different. 120 mg (40mg 3 times a day??) is a good size dose and his program to get off the shit was too aggressive- FOR HIM. As I said everyone is different but most doctors would agree that Benzos (Xanax, Valium etc) are far more dangerous to withdraw from. Cold turkey with those WILL kill you and it happens far sooner than with opioids. Methadone is used for both heroin and Oxy addicts to great success. I am not a doctor so I may be way off base, but I really don't think Joe has an addiction. If you've never had extreme pain it's hard to comment on his desire to take them. Psychologically, he knows it will provide relief but also understands the downslope can be steep. Get the balm or candy and see what happens. You will be amazed how well it works but again your tolerance goes up so you have to consume more as time goes on.

 

Mark

Living in NC leaves out the TCH for now even medical use is still illegal though there are bills supposed to be addressed this year. it will sooner or later be legal there seems to be a tide moving across the country and these rural type states are always last to accept the inevitable no matter how good the benefits. I am randomly tested and so nothing not prescribed enters.

 

2 hours ago, JohnJ said:

@joessportster

Did Dr. Kwon in Clt do your fusion?

He is an absolute top notch person and doctor, in case you aren't aware.

 

Did it for five vertebrae for my mother in about 2008. Unfortunately when two more discs had degenerated one above and one below she declined another operation to include those. It would have been a much more intensive operation to pull the rods out and put in new longer ones.

 

He's on Randolph Rd. with all the other pricey docs towards downtown. His reviewing your info and advice would be well worth your time and money.

When her condition prevents her from being able to perform the post-operative therapy... she considers it a partial fail.

 

After that it's to the pain dr, only now he's an "addiction dr" knows full well her condition and cut her Rx by one third and notified us it was only the first reduction. He's a rude, cold hearted politician. Hippocratic Oath seems to not hold sway over lots of those as$h*les in the last decade.

Dr Griffeth in Md. did the lumbar, and Dr. Williams in Pine Hurst did the cervical

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Just now, joessportster said:

Living in NC leaves out the TCH for now even medical use is still illegal though there are bills supposed to be addressed this year. it will sooner or later be legal there seems to be a tide moving across the country and these rural type states are always last to accept the inevitable no matter how good the benefits. I am randomly tested and so nothing not prescribed enters.

 

Dr Griffeth in Md. did the lumbar, and Dr. Williams in Pine Hurst did the cervical.  Mri on cervical showed almost total pinched off canal looked like a U instead of an O, Dr. said staying in 1 position for to long and could be paralyzed  surgery was a must.

 

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18 minutes ago, joessportster said:

TCH

THC...but yes, high tide and green grass.

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35 minutes ago, joessportster said:

Living in NC leaves out the TCH for now even medical use is still illegal though there are bills supposed to be addressed this year.

This is crazy, it should be legal for medical everywhere there is no excuse. Considering all the side effects of all the different medicines there is no excuse to not make it legal, at least as medicine.

 

I'm not saying it's the cureall for everything but it does have fewer side effects than many, so why not.

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