Traveling Man Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) I recently upgraded my Klipsch speakers after wanting Cornwalls forever. Anyway they were not sounding as well as I expected in my 5.1 surround so I upgraded the center Snergy C3 with a Klipsch RC-65 III. Expensive but a nice balance for the dialog in the system. After a few weeks I discovered a weakness in the rear surround speakers, the Snergy S3s. I upgraded to the Klipsch RP 502S which include (2) 5" midrange and (2) 1" tweeters vs the S3 single 5" driver and (2) 1" tweeters. I just installed them and I am really liking them over the S3s. I was always happy with the Snergy line for most listening but this system is head and shoulders better. I still have the 12" Snergy line sub installed and I am wondering if upgrading it would be beneficial. My AVR is a Onkyo TX-NR510 so I have the capability of adding another sub. I am thinking about letting the 12" Snergy go and adding a single Reference series 15" sub since the Cornwall IIIs are so capable. What do you guys think, a single 15" sub or (2) 12" subs? My room is in excess of 16"X20' since the Kitchen blends into the area too. Your comments are appreciated. Edited January 10, 2019 by Traveling Man minor technical clarification 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Quote As long as you are happy then great. Thinking a 15 inch may be adequate for your space but, some say 12x12 equals 24 so...let others here say. Interesting to me you are combining a heritage type speaker set like the Cornwalls with anything less, such as an Academy center...etc. There are deals around so...enjoy and welcome here again to the forum...like your Traveling Man handle also. Had a biz named that awhile back read...Bob Seger... Thinking you have an RC-64 center... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Man Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 42 minutes ago, billybob said: As long as you are happy then great. Thinking a 15 inch may be adequate for your space but, some say 12x12 equals 24 so...let others here say. Interesting to me you are combining a heritage type speaker set like the Cornwalls with anything less, such as an Academy center...etc. There are deals around so...enjoy and welcome here again to the forum...like your Traveling Man handle also. Had a biz named that awhile back read...Bob Seger... Thinking you have an RC-64 center... Turn the Page...yes although this handle is reverence to a very old fraternity that I associate myself with. For music, not doubt the Cornwalls are more than sufficient while included in a surround system they are marginally better than the rest of the system. The center speaker I have is a RC-64 III and another Cornwall or Hershey could have been purchased for the same price but this speakers physical dimensions made it a better choice. I will research the Academy center but I think the RC-64 III is worthy. Thanks for your response Billybob. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 To each his own I will and can say. Worthy of a title, would have done the same if had a second chance. As for the question at hand regarding the subs...will say Klipsch then is the way but, opinioins will differ here. Very happy that you had the option for the 3's. Envy not my strong suit but, for a surround HT, sounds as if, you are doing well. As said earlier, others will invariably chime in. If can be of any assistance whatsoever, please do not hesitate. We are a group who takes our music seriously. Thank you so much for to reply. "Still The Same" Sure sounds like you are on the right track with Klipsch...more power to you... mostly 2 channel myself ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, billybob said: To each his own I will and can say. Worthy of a title, would have done the same if had a second chance. As for the question at hand regarding the subs...will say Klipsch then is the way but, opinioins will differ here. Very happy that you had the option for the 3's. Envy not my strong suit but, for a surround HT, sounds as if, you are doing well. As said earlier, others will invariably chime in. If can be of any assistance whatsoever, please do not hesitate. We are a group who takes our music seriously. Thank you so much for to reply. "Still The Same" Sure sounds like you are on the right track with Klipsch...more power to you... mostly 2 channel myself ... Will also say as an affacionado after the fave over BSeger as only had the opp. 4 times as recall...peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Add the 15" and keep the 12 until you can easily replace it with another 15. Two subs always give better results than one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Man Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 Alright, I'm definitely thinking I need additional bass but everything else is really nice. The location of the Cornwalls is a little unique, I have them in a Bay window so although they are next to the wall they are not parallel to the wall and the corner is inverted. Would this setup affect the bass in a negative way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Traveling Man said: The location of the Cornwalls is a little unique, I have them in a Bay window so although they are next to the wall they are not parallel to the wall and the corner is inverted. Would this setup affect the bass in a negative way? I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but my understanding is that Cornwalls were named that way because they can be placed in a Corner, or a Wall. If they are optimum there I don't know. +++ I am a fan of one good sub vs two lessor ones, but that is the minority view. My reasoning is that a 15" will move 40% more air than a 12". If you have a single 12 then adding a second will only add 3 db to the top end, the main advantage being that a pair of subs evens out nulls and peaks in the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Man Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 A picture is worth one thousand words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Man Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, wvu80 said: I'm not trying to be a smart alec, but my understanding is that Cornwalls were named that way because they can be placed in a Corner, or a Wall. If they are optimum there I don't know. +++ I am a fan of one good sub vs two lessor ones, but that is the minority view. My reasoning is that a 15" will move 40% more air than a 12". If you have a single 12 then adding a second will only add 3 db to the top end, the main advantage being that a pair of subs evens out nulls and peaks in the room. I am still working on this setup and frankly I didn't think I would even need a sub but I need a little more bass. I'm going to increase the gain on the subwoofer and see if that has any affect. The Onkyo set-up said to turn the sub up to 75% and I never did it because I always had great bass. I'll do that and run the set-up again with the sub turned up and see how that sounds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, wvu80 said: ................ I am a fan of one good sub vs two lessor ones, but that is the minority view. My reasoning is that a 15" will move 40% more air than a 12". If you have a single 12 then adding a second will only add 3 db to the top end, the main advantage being that a pair of subs evens out nulls and peaks in the room. Actually +3dB for 2x the cone area and +3dB for 2x the amp power, 6dB greater max output. But the real advantage is lower distortion because the drivers run under lower stress (-6 dB at any given volume) and more even in-room response. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnA said: Actually +3dB for 2x the cone area and +3dB for 2x the amp power, 6dB greater max output. But the real advantage is lower distortion because the drivers run under lower stress (-6 dB at any given volume) and more even in-room response. I agree with part of what you wrote but not all because you are assuming an equality which is not necessarily present. On the even room response we do agree. It's been my experience, generalizing here that 12" subs DO NOT use the same power amps as 15" subs. I generally think of 10" subs with plate amps running about 125 watts RMS, the 12 at 250, the 15 at 500. I find with my single15" sub running at 500 wpc gives me 90% of what I can get with a pair of 12" subs with 250 wpc. I do have a dual sub 15 setup and I get a little more performance, but not double my single 15. And we are debating the merits of two 12's vs a single 15. For the same money, I prefer the single 15 over a pair of cheaper 12's. As I said, that is the minority opinion, but it is still my preference based on my experience. There are tons of models and variables which affect our final conclusions, but this is what I base my opinions on: My subs: 10" Paradigm w/125 plate amp, ported. 12" Klipsch RW12d, ported, 250 wpc Bash plate amp 15" Reference 15 sealed, 500 wpc Yung plate amp w/bass boost Pair, 15" Ultimax, Inuke 3000dsp, realisticly about 600 wpc. I have a pair of identical Inuke 3000dsp but I usually run one amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveling Man Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 I'm kinda shopping for a subwoofer but I am not exclusively looking at Klipsch subwoofers. If I had the space I would go with the SVS PB16 but I do not have the 31" deep dimension. Every other spec on this speaker is what I am looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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