daemonix Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Hi all, Im using a denon 3500 with sort off tested output like this one (multi-channel distortion and watt drop): https://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x3400h-av-receiver-review-test-bench I'd like to use the 6000f and bi amp them.. Apart from the obvious debate about any additional benefits of bi amp-ing.. I;d like to know the wattage rating of the top and bottom part of the speaker. (of course Im not planning to even push any close to the max.. I dont have the space for it). 1) Can someone give me the tech specs for the two half of the speaker? 2) There is a lot of "flame wars" about bi-amping.. especially with low-end setups.. but in my head: 50% of single amping has less "power" than 50% of bi-amp (even with the decrease in wattage that the reality tells us).. so Ill probably use my system to 20-30% 'volume' and probably less distortion.. :S Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Have you checked with Paradigm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonix Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, CECAA850 said: Paradigm I dont know what you mean by "paradigm"?! Sorry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, daemonix said: I dont know what you mean by "paradigm"?! Sorry I had a brain fart, sorry. If you bi-amp, what crossover will you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonix Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: I had a brain fart, sorry. If you bi-amp, what crossover will you use? I assume the existing crossovers in the rp-6000f right? This amp is a basic denon 3500h (so no multi power amps with pre/crossovers). I was planning to remove the metal bridges and connect to 4 amp outs like normal. Both parts of the speaker with gate the same signal (I dont things my specs will do anything fancier). Any ideas on the wattage of the two parts of the speakers? Even the info from a 260f or something will be helpful. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 The power rating for the RP-6000F are 125 watts continuous and 500 watts peak, according to the Klipsch specs sheet. I think it is a good idea to bi-amp that Denon and Klipsch combination, carefully following Denon's amplifier assignment instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonix Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: RP-6000F are 125 watts continuous and 500 watts peak Any idea if both horn/tweeter and woofers are rated the same? I've seen other makers with unequal ratings (example: 50 RMS woofer and 25 RMS tweeter). I always had an "uneducated" fear that tweeters/horns wont take the same power as woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, daemonix said: I assume the existing crossovers in the rp-6000f right? No. This is a copy and paste from the spec sheet: Bi-amping allows for customization using outboard crossovers when using separate amplifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, daemonix said: I always had an "uneducated" fear that tweeters/horns wont take the same power as woofers. That is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: This is a copy and paste from the spec sheet: Bi-amping allows for customization using outboard crossovers when using separate amplifiers. I read that also, but can't imagine that the entire split passive crossover function is defeated by removing the external jumper wires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonix Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: No. This is a copy and paste from the spec sheet: Bi-amping allows for customization using outboard crossovers when using separate amplifiers. Are you sure this is true for the 6000f (that I definitely need also external crossovers?) From my understanding of the 6000f design/circuit the 4 binding posts are bridged so each pair has a cross behind it. by unbridging the 4 posts you can use the same crossovers but with 2 amps. I dont see a way to remove the internal crossover from the circuit without opening the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, daemonix said: Are you sure this is true for the 6000f I just looked it up. https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fbf1884fc0965506ae2b946e1cd.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product-specsheets/RP-6000F_Spec-Sheet_v01.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, daemonix said: I dont see a way to remove the internal crossover from the circuit without opening the speaker. The jumper removal may do that externally. If I could see a schematic I could tell you for sure but they're not published on current speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, daemonix said: 29 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Bi-amping allows for customization using outboard crossovers when using separate amplifiers. Are you sure this is true for the 6000f (that I definitely need also external crossovers?) Going from the general to the specific: For genuine bi-amping the bi-amping would occur at the amp level and by-pass completely the internal crossovers (XO) of the speaker and that would called ACTIVE bi-amping. For almost all home speakers this does not happen as nobody disconnects the speaker XO and connects the amp directly to the speakers, or connects via a Digital Signal Processor (DSP). A lot of modern AVR's have a menu choice for PASSIVE bi-amping. If your AVR has this feature it would be safe for you to choose this option and then remove the metal straps. The XO will take are of making sure too much power does not go to each HF and LF section. +++ If your AVR is rated for 100 wpc and you bi-amp it will not send 200 wpc to the speakers. What you will likely experience is some more clarity in the mid range, but it will be subtle. Different speakers respond differently to different AVR's. You are safe removing the jumpers, making the AVR menu choice to bi-amp and connect your speaker wires according to the AVR manual. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, wvu80 said: A lot of modern AVR's have a menu choice for PASSIVE bi-amping. Sounds like bi-wiring which does absolutely nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: I just looked it up. I also read that same spec sheet, but almost all Klipsch home audio speakers with dual binding posts have a separate HF and LF crossover section that is externally bridged with the removable jumper straps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Sounds like bi-wiring which does absolutely nothing. No, it's not. Bi-wiring is a completely different procedure. Both my Onkyo 717 7.2 AVR and Marantz 6011 9.2 AVR have a specific procedure identified as Bi-AMPING in the manual. This uses the L/R outputs and the menu choice converts the Surround Rear L & R outputs to connect directly to the HF and LF sections of the speaker. To Bi-WIRE both HF and LF sections are connected directly to the L/R outputs ONLY (with straps removed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, wvu80 said: A lot of modern AVR's have a menu choice for PASSIVE bi-amping. If your AVR has this feature it would be safe for you to choose this option and then remove the metal straps. The XO will take are of making sure too much power does not go to each HF and LF section. +++ The crossover in the speaker or receiver? I'd still like to see a schematic. That would make things easier for me to wrap my head around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/117543-active-bi-ampingtri-amping-faq/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonix Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 the Denon has a similar menu/config setting. Front LR plus the 2 extra channels from the back-something speakers (its a 7.x amp). 12 minutes ago, wvu80 said: If your AVR is rated for 100 wpc and you bi-amp it will not send 200 wpc to the speakers. Its been a bit of time since my engineering edu but if we assume that with _all channels_ active the amp make 80wpc (there is a loss with more than 2 ch active ok), and we connect 2 channels per speaker we effectively give a theoretical max of 2x80w. right or Im missing some physics law? cheers gents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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