Klipsch Heritage Speaker/Brooklyn Apartment

[mdm7eb]

Hi There,

I have spent the past few days reading old threads and thought I should start my own. I am interested in purchasing a Klipsch Heritage speaker to match with my recently restored (by Audio Classics) McIntosh MC240 and MX110. The balance of my system includes: Rega P5 turntable with PSU and Linn  Adikt Cartridge, Linn Numerik DAC, and Rega R5 speakers. My room is 12x18x9 (or 10). I live in a pre-war apartment building in Brooklyn that is solidly constructed with concrete slab and plaster (I barely hear my neighbors). Not the best photo, but attached is a picture from the seat I listen to my stereo. As you can see, I sit 6-7 feet away from the speakers. Behind the couch (not pictured) that I am sitting on is a mini office space/desk/bookshelf on the rear wall/corner -- so I can't really get further away from the speakers. I have a large vinyl record collection that contains a lot of jazz, indie rock, classic rock, folk, and limited hip-hop/rap and that is typically the type of music I listen too. I love live music and catch live jazz or an indie rock show once or twice a month (and have for years). I also stream music via Sonos/Tidal.

 

I think my setup sounds very good but I am intrigued to hear a different sound. A few months ago, I went to the World of McIntosh in SOHO and heard all of their fabulous offerings, I was not particularly blown away by most of the McIntosh or Sonus Faber speakers -- but I was intrigued by the scale and presence of McIntosh's crazy expensive XRT2.1K speakers that produced a soundscape similar to being at Brooklyn Steel/9:30 Club or another live concert venue. Last year I listened to the newest Rega version of my speaker, the RX5, but thought mine sounded better. I have wanted to listen to Devore speakers, since he lives in my neighborhood and his offerings are also very efficient and work well with tubes, but they are likely out of my price range, $8-10k is just to much for me at this stage in my life. I have heard Harbeth's in the past and liked them. My Dad has Magneplanar 3.7's but I don't love them -- I wish they where more dynamic and rhythmic (what I love best about my speakers). I would not consider myself an audiophile so much as I would a music lover that is seeking a transcendental listening experience.  In another life, I would love to have an art space/bar with my current setup and some KHorns where I would just vibrate the neighborhood and write art/poetry all day long. Long term, I would also consider building my own speakers from a kit or plans. I can get space at a wood working shop space in the area.

 

I have not heard Klipsch speakers before and I don't know where I can in New York. However, I think I might like them and I believe they would pair well with my current gear. Could you all provide further insight if you think a Klipsch Heritage speaker would be a good match with my preferences? Lastly, which one should I consider? The Heresy would fit best in my space, I think. Although I think I would love more bass, but I am not sure if my neighbors would. I am concerned the Forte or Cornwall would overwhelm my listening room/get me evicted. 

 

I look forward to the conversation.

 

Malcolm 

 

 

[Mallette]

Let everyone know where you are. You'll get an invite to audition. Warning...I was exposed to Klipschorns by PWK in 1971. Ruined my life as I spent the next decades trying to afford them. Then, when you have them, your search for speakers is over.  Not natural for audiophiles...

Dave

[Mallette]

Sheesh...just notice your location. Hearing a great Heritage setup should be easy there.

Dave

[Budman]

welcome to the forum Malcolm

if you put cornwalls in your room you wouldn't have windows anymore 😁  they are that big

and then you would be evicted

 

[RNL9]

I think Cornwalls sound great quiet as well as loud - I live in a prewar building in Manhattan and have heresy III's and really l love them - just afraid they might not be enough bass for you! 

[Mallette]

22 minutes ago, RNL9 said:

I think Cornwalls sound great quiet as well as loud - I live in a prewar building in Manhattan and have heresy III's and really l love them - just afraid they might not be enough bass for you! 

As a pipe organ lover, I use a horn loaded sub even with Klipschorns. Works seamlessly and it only takes one. Need that last octave for the last octave down to C0, and it helps with piano and other things. No freestanding speaker is going to get to C0 if it will fit in any room. Sub is a must for those who want it all, even with Heritage. 

PWK stated outright the K'horn was designed to cover the range of 98% of all recorded music without being so big, heavy, and expensive it only a few could afford it. However, you can get the other 2% with a separate horn loaded sub that doesn't break the bank. Some of us want that last 2%. 

Dave

[jimjimbo]

Welcome to the forum..  I also have, among other things....an MC240 and MX110 pair.    For the size of your room and your listening position, I think you should try to seek out and audition Forte III  or Heresy III speakers.   My opinion is that anything larger will overwhelm your room.

[Peter P.]

Your thoughts, after viewing the image of your room, are correct. Larger speakers would take up too much space, and space is a prime consideration when buying speakers.

 

The Heresy's are a great choice and the only Heritage series speaker that fits the bill for you; use them for a while then see if you desire a subwoofer which many, including myself, think is a a good upgrade that will likely find an unobtrusive spot in your room. You're right about Forte's and Cornwall's being lease breakers if you succumb to temptation, but the same could be said of Heresy III's with their 99dB/W/m efficiency.

 

Don't have room for a sub or prefer a straight, full range speaker and you're willing to look beyond the Heritage Series? Get a kg 3.2, kg 4, kg 4.2, kg 5.2,  or Quartets, all of which occupy a similar footprint than the Heresy.

 

If you don't have a local Klipsch dealer, check the used market such as craigslist. Right now I see Quartets, kg 4's, more kg 4's and kg 4.2's for sale in your locale, with reasonable used pricing.

 

There's even a pair of Heresy's in CT for $375.

 

And if you wanted to make the trip to CT, you could listen to my Heresy II's to see if they're your cup o' tea.

If you're like myself, you want the authentic, real deal, so you just have to hear any Heritage Series speaker to see what all the fuss is about.

[Panelhead]

  A room 12 x 18 is not bad. With the locations of your windows a Klipschorn is out. I think Heresy is your best option. 

  The 375.00 ones in CT might be the ticket. Once home you can talk to Bob Crites about getting the most out of them for reasonable amounts of money.

  But for maybe 800 - 1200 you should be able to swing a pair of Hiii. They are engineered to be a little more efficient and have flatter response than the earlier versions. Many who OWN Hiii and either Hi or Hii say there is step up in sound quality. 

  A sub will be fine if you do not set the level too high. The neighbors will know if you set the sub level too high. There is not much below 60 Hz in most music. I have a car with a car show stereo and  the bass gets muddy if the level is adjusted too high. 

  Many subs have a crossover built in and allow passing the high pass filtered output to the mains. I prefer doing this with software but most subs are okay in this function.

  I purchased Hiii and loved them. Sold my previous speakers which were more expensive than the Hiii. 

[glens]

Definitely Forte III as they don't take up all that much more floor space than Heresy.

 

Contact Cory (Metropolislakeoutfitters) for a killer deal on "B" stock that you'll likely not be able to see why they are.  That's what I did.  Just do it.  You don't need to hear them first (I didn't).

[billybob]

6 hours ago, mdm7eb said:

Hi There,

I have spent the past few days reading old threads and thought I should start my own. I am interested in purchasing a Klipsch Heritage speaker to match with my recently restored (by Audio Classics) McIntosh MC240 and MX110. The balance of my system includes: Rega P5 turntable with PSU and Linn  Adikt Cartridge, Linn Numerik DAC, and Rega R5 speakers. My room is 12x18x9 (or 10). I live in a pre-war apartment building in Brooklyn that is solidly constructed with concrete slab and plaster (I barely hear my neighbors). Not the best photo, but attached is a picture from the seat I listen to my stereo. As you can see, I sit 6-7 feet away from the speakers. Behind the couch (not pictured) that I am sitting on is a mini office space/desk/bookshelf on the rear wall/corner -- so I can't really get further away from the speakers. I have a large vinyl record collection that contains a lot of jazz, indie rock, classic rock, folk, and limited hip-hop/rap and that is typically the type of music I listen too. I love live music and catch live jazz or an indie rock show once or twice a month (and have for years). I also stream music via Sonos/Tidal.

 

I think my setup sounds very good but I am intrigued to hear a different sound. A few months ago, I went to the World of McIntosh in SOHO and heard all of their fabulous offerings, I was not particularly blown away by most of the McIntosh or Sonus Faber speakers -- but I was intrigued by the scale and presence of McIntosh's crazy expensive XRT2.1K speakers that produced a soundscape similar to being at Brooklyn Steel/9:30 Club or another live concert venue. Last year I listened to the newest Rega version of my speaker, the RX5, but thought mine sounded better. I have wanted to listen to Devore speakers, since he lives in my neighborhood and his offerings are also very efficient and work well with tubes, but they are likely out of my price range, $8-10k is just to much for me at this stage in my life. I have heard Harbeth's in the past and liked them. My Dad has Magneplanar 3.7's but I don't love them -- I wish they where more dynamic and rhythmic (what I love best about my speakers). I would not consider myself an audiophile so much as I would a music lover that is seeking a transcendental listening experience.  In another life, I would love to have an art space/bar with my current setup and some KHorns where I would just vibrate the neighborhood and write art/poetry all day long. Long term, I would also consider building my own speakers from a kit or plans. I can get space at a wood working shop space in the area.

 

I have not heard Klipsch speakers before and I don't know where I can in New York. However, I think I might like them and I believe they would pair well with my current gear. Could you all provide further insight if you think a Klipsch Heritage speaker would be a good match with my preferences? Lastly, which one should I consider? The Heresy would fit best in my space, I think. Although I think I would love more bass, but I am not sure if my neighbors would. I am concerned the Forte or Cornwall would overwhelm my listening room/get me evicted. 

 

I look forward to the conversation.

 

Malcolm 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, glens said:

Definitely Forte III as they don't take up all that much more floor space than Heresy.

 

Contact Cory (Metropolislakeoutfitters) for a killer deal on "B" stock that you'll likely not be able to see why they are.  That's what I did.  Just do it.  You don't need to hear them first (I didn't).

Maybe just the thing...will go along with this recc....Music and cannot be hurt after all is said...

[glens]

To add, the Fortes are one inch wider than Heresy, same depth, maybe less since they don't lean back.

 

I hadn't heard Klipsch home speakers for ~40 years and don't even remember how I came to investigate the Forte.  They are exactly what I anticipated (horns, high efficiency, more-controlled directivity) and sound phenomenal.  Top to bottom.  I've had them now for a little over a month, thereabouts.

[DizRotus]

Welcome Malcolm,

 

My space is smaller than yours.  I use a pair of DIY Super Heresys and four small DIY tapped horn subs.  Having owned Klipschorns, Cornwalls, La Scalas and Heresys, my recommendation to you would be Heresys and a sub, or two, or three, etc.

 

Yes, the sensation of bass from Cornwalls or Forte IIIs would be greater than from Heresys (I, II, or III), but Heresys and a sub would give you more flexibility.  IMO, being able to turn off a sub to enjoy Heresys without disturbing your neighbors, but having the option to turn it on when the neighbors are not an issue, would be preferable to using Cornwall’s or Forte IIIs without a sub.  As Dave @Mallette said, ALL Heritage speakers need a sub to get the first octave out of the rare recording that has content below 50hz.

 

Due to my small cave, for years I deluded myself into being satisfied with the excellent sound from my 5 DIY Fostex FE103 single driver bass reflex speakers supplemented by four small DIY Anarchy Exodus tapped horn subs.  For TV and movies, the system is near perfect in my space, and music in 2-channel sounded very good also, until my son’s Heresys were  temporarily available.  I’d forgotten how much I missed the clarity and effortless dynamics of Klipsch.

 

Most of the time a sub, or subs, in my space is not needed for 2-channel.  Turning it (them) on is an improvement, but not a necessity for 2-channel Heresy music reproduction.  The single driver 5.1 system needs the sub(s) for TV and movies.  Since my small space is in the basement of an individual home, disturbing the neighbors is not an issue.

 

My son uses his Heresys primarily for TV, movies, and gaming; music is secondary.  Without consulting me, he purchased a Polk powered sub to get that explosion impact important for the games and movies he enjoys.  I must admit, it sounds pretty good.  It’s a bit exaggerated for my taste as he has it set up, but it does enhance the bass from the Heresys.  His living room is larger than my basement space.  The horse hair plaster walls of the 1929 duplex appears to be similar to your situation.  My other son lives above in the same duplex.  He chose Klipsch The Sixes over Heresys.  He uses a single Anarchy Exodus TH sub with good results.

 

The first attached photo below shows one of my DIY Supers in front of one of my son’s Heresys, with a DIY single driver sitting on one of the TH subs.  The lower photo better illustrates the limits of the small space.  The photos show four Heresys, but the usual complement is only a pair.

 

 

 

 

[mdm7eb]

Hi all,

 

I am overwhelmed by everyone's welcome and great suggestions. I am still torn between whether the Hersey or Forte would work better. As a reference point, my current speakers are 89 db efficient, and I think go down to the mid 40hz range in the bass department.  My wife would be happier with the Hersey, I suspect. I am intrigued by the Quartets  and KG4 options -- they where not previously on my radar. It appears the Quartets might be a good in between option. It seems I could refresh the Quartets with Crites parts? I am fine spending up to $2k on speakers, but I am also I fan of getting equal or better performance for less. Maybe I should consider taking a trek out to New Jersey this long weekend. 

 

It seems some good options  for me are:

• Forte (used or new). Pros: bigger sound stage and more bass. Cons: bigger and likely more expensive. 
• Hersey (used or new). Pros: nice size and sound. Cons: light on bass.
• Quartets (used). Pros: nice bass and a bit bigger sound? Cons: used, need refreshed?

Considering I may not be able to listen to my purchase before I buy, either purchasing new with a good return policy or getting a good value used seems to make the most sense. I guess what I am now trying to understand is the trade-off between value and quality based on my listening preference. For sound quality that match my preferences it seems the options rank as follows:

• Forte III (or II)
• Quartets (refreshed?)
• Heresy III with a sub
• Heresy III without a sub
• Heresy I or II

How would you rank the above list for value?

 

Thanks again for everyone that has commented and provided very helpful advice.

 

Malcolm

[MEH Synergy]

5 minutes ago, mdm7eb said:

Hersey (used or new). Pros: nice size and sound. Cons: light on bass.

Heresy IIIs are NOT light on bass IMO.   They just don't have extended deep bass.   Quantity is very satisfying and natural bass.  If you can't tell, from that list, I would go with the heresy IIIs.   Try them without a sub for some time before deciding to go with one, they will grow on you.  

[mdm7eb]

Just now, Westcoastdrums said:

Heresy IIIs are NOT light on bass IMO.   They just don't have extended deep bass.   Quantity is very satisfying and natural bass.  

 

Got it. And I guess that's what is hard for me to determine, I listen to a lot of jazz and indie rock, that while they have bass, 50hz is probably enough most of the time. My current speakers do some bass, but are not out of the park, and that's okay with me.

[MEH Synergy]

Just now, mdm7eb said:

 

Got it. And I guess that's what is hard for me to determine, I listen to a lot of jazz and indie rock, that while they have bass, 50hz is probably enough most of the time. My current speakers do some bass, but are not out of the park, and that's okay with me.

Your wife will appreciate the size, you the sound.   If you decide you need a sub, you can buy exactly what you want.   Theres $1000 difference going to Forte IIIs and they are NOT worth double the price over heresys IMO.   quartets I haven't heard.   Vintage heresys sound great but the new III is SOOOO good.   If you feel like swapping parts and or recapping. Possible heresy II might be a good choice for you?   Forte IIs are great but around my area, they are going for $1000 a pair consistently(bone stock BTW) , no thanks. 

[RT FAN]

 

Welcome to the Klipsch forum. I have had Klipsch speakers in various apartments in Manhattan for years, with no complaints form my neighbors. One thing to remember is that Klipsch are incredibly efficient and as such, given your room, the vast majority of your listening will be done under 1/2 a  watt. I have had Chorus II, Cornwall II & Forte in apartments and have been happy with all of them, although they were overkill.

[RT FAN]

 Malcolm, try to find a shop to audition some Klipsch Heritage speakers to see if the horn loaded sound agrees with you. I think the nearest authorized dealer is in Jersey. Two things to remember, McIntosh & Klipsch are a natural pairing and when it comes to Klipsch speakers, go big or go home. A notion most members here would agree with.

[Peter P.]

9 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Heresy IIIs are NOT light on bass IMO.   They just don't have extended deep bass.   Quantity is very satisfying and natural bass.  If you can't tell, from that list, I would go with the heresy IIIs.   Try them without a sub for some time before deciding to go with one, they will grow on you.  

I have to agree that's probably a more accurate description of the Heresy's low end.

 

To answer the OP's ranking question, I'd probably rank them in the order you've listed them.

 

Since your existing speakers are narrower than the Forte's, you'll be surprised at the physical "frontal" space they occupy.

And back to the "used" theme, there's a pair in Niantic CT for $500, which is about as low as you'll see for a pair of Forte's . I've even been tempted to buy them to replace my Heresy II's.

I've got Upgrade-itis, I tell ya!

 

The Quartets are a tad smaller than Forte's, and I wouldn't consider "refreshing" them before listening. If they ain't broke, don't fix 'em. They ran circles around my Heresy's in both the low end and efficiency departments.

 

While I haven't heard Heresy III's, the extra high efficiency they have will astound you, even if you can't turn them up.

 

The difference in efficiency between your existing speakers and the Heresy I's or II's will be readily apparent should you go the used route, and will still make a positive impression.