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powdermnky007

Amp recommendation - back after 15 years!

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I was an active forum member around 2002-2004.  Haven't had a dedicated 2 channel setup in a long time!  Got married, started a family, you know. I found a set of kg 3.5 speakers in a pawn shop with blown tweeters and did the crites tweeter upgrade two nights ago.  I have a dragonfly red hooked to my computer to steam lossless Tidal.  Using a small class t amp for power right now.  Probably will put out 10 watts after a few upgrades.  So far estatic to have some good tunes.

 

I plan to upgrade to a vintage Marantz 2200b series receiver.  My speakers are 65 watts max and in a small room, but I like them loud.  I'm wondering how many watts of amp power I should get to match those speakers well and not run the risk of blowing them.  

 

I play loud electric guitar and will use the Klipsch as my backup band, so it's gonna be loud!  What do you recommend?

 

Thank you and good to be back!

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Buy the pcats in the garage sale section...

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15 minutes ago, powdermnky007 said:

I play loud electric guitar and will use the Klipsch as my backup band, so it's gonna be loud!  What do you recommend?

Klipsch Professional speakers or bigger heritage speakers (Cornwalls, khorns or scalas) 

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Unfortunately, the spec sheet on the KG 3.5 isn't available on the Klipsch website.   I'm looking for its sensitivity (or efficiency) in order to guesstimate the power needed for loud sound in a small room.

 

Do you know the sensitivity?

 

How big is your room in cubic feet?

 

 

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Had some KG 3.2; pretty similar to the 3.5's.  Pretty good speaker, but think the sensitivity is only about 90dB's, so don't expect to be "blown out of the room." :D  Have a Marantz 2238B on RF-3 speakers (??? not sure; just using the woofers/horns in a vintage cabinet) ... good definition and pretty loud :)  Had a Marantz 2252B (love that amp) on a pair of KPT-904's (OK; 105dB sens.)  Blew me out of the house ... but since upgraded to a Crown K1 amp (350W/ch) as I wanted to "blow" my neighbours away also :D  

 

Seriusly ... think 50W/ch would be fine. Had wondered about about "not enough" power ... see my post 

 Haha, or as @Westcoastdrums said, go for the "Pro" stuff ... you won't regret it :D

 

Cheers, Emile

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Detailed Description

The two-way KG Series KG 3.5 floorstanding loudspeaker was first introduced in 1994 and manufactured by Klipsch until 1997. While no longer in production, KG 3.5 model loudspeakers are still owned and listened to by Klipsch fans around the world as part of two-channel audio and home theater surround sound systems. To connect with other people who are passionate about audio and interested in Klipsch Classic products, visit one the several KlipschClassic areas on our open forum bulletin board.
KG 3.5 Specifications
frequency response 36Hz-20kHz±3dB
power handling 65 watts maximum continuous (325 watts peak)
sensitivity 94dB @ 1watt/1meter
nominal impedance 8 ohms
tweeter K-84-K 1" (2.54cm) Polymer dome compression driver
high frequency horn 90°x40° Exponential Horn
woofer K-1002-K 8" (20.32cm) Injected Carbon Graphite cone
enclosure material Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF)
enclosure type Bass reflex via front-mounted port
dimensions 33.5" (85.1cm) x 10.5" (26.7cm) x 11.5" (29.2cm)
weight 39 lbs. (17.7kg)
finishes Whitewash, Lt. Oak, Med. Oak, Cherry, Walnut, Black Satin veneers, Black vinyl
built from 1994
built until 1997

 

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/kg-3-5-floor-standing-speakers.193510/

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1 hour ago, powdermnky007 said:

good to be back!

Oops .. forgot ... welcome back :D 

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Thanks for the suggestions and the welcome back! It's good to be back and obsessing over the mineutia again lol.

 

My room is only 12x14, so 168 cubic feet.

 

Speaker specs copied from above

handling 65 watts maximum continuous (325 watts peak)
sensitivity 94dB @ 1watt/1meter

 

I did read the post about having an amp too small, so I'm reserved about cranking my little amp now up to much. 

 

Kinda looking for the Goldilocks amp.  Not to weak to get into clipping early and not too powerful to blow the tweeters out again.  Keep the suggestions coming. 😁

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3 hours ago, Schu said:

Buy the pcats in the garage sale section...

Checked it out, nice but way above the point of diminishing returns for my speakers, source, and room.  Looking for amp and pre in the $400-500 range and kinda have my heart set on an old Marantz.  About to go read your in the 2252b suggested above.  

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Welcome back Bond!

 

"About to go read your in the 2252b suggested above"... you might be surprised at the price of admission for some of  these

great old vintage receivers, Marantz, in particular. :ohmy:

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3 hours ago, powdermnky007 said:

My room is only 12x14, so 168 cubic feet.

 

A belated welcome back!

 

:smile:We need to plug in the room height to get the cubic feet.  12x14 only gives us 168 square feet. :smile: 

 

If you have a standard 8 foot ceiling, your room would be 1344 cubic feet.  At 94w/1m/1w in a 1344 cu. ft. room of average liveness, and your kg 3.5s, you would need (very approximately) 15 watts to produce the Dolby/THX reference level of 105 dB peaks above 80 Hz.  Dolby/THX cinema standards expect you to have a separate, powered, subwoofer to do the heavy lifting below 80 Hz, and produce peaks up to 115 dB (below 80 Hz).  If you get a 52 watt vintage Marantz, instead of the 20 watt one, and if the 52 watt rating is "for real," as they used to say back when that amp was made, you would get nearer to 109 dB peaks.  Paul Klipsch estimated that you need 115 dB very brief peaks "at your ears to produce the blood stirring levels of a symphony orchestra."   IMO, your speakers might have a very hard time going there, at least safely.  Most people would be happy with the 109 dB peaks you probably can get, but since you want to use your system as a "back up band," while you play electric guitar, and you used the word "loud" three times in your post ...

 

Guitar amps (and their speakers) permit horrendous distortion, which the players use artistically (one hopes), and they use special heavy duty speakers that can take it.  So your guitar audio doesn't have to obey the rules that your 2 channel listening audio must heed.   For instance, the JBL D130 and D130A were pretty hardy, but a D130F was specially made to take guitar assault.  The Greatfull Dead used these, plus some pretty delicate tweeters, but used a few more than usual:

 

image.png.5ec9da9b2610b27186ba4b3c3e9c1663.pngimage.png.f0fd4af84c8a1d4f7faa69da6a91c3fd.png

  • Approximate Cost $275,000
  • Acceptable Sound Quality At 1/4 Mile and you could hear it more than a mile away depending on wind.
  • (11) Separate Sound Channels
  • (89) 300-Watt Solid State Amplifiers
  • (3) 350-Watt Vacuum Tube Amplifiers
  • Total Watts = 26,400 (RMS)                     image.png.9da305f8e3e9496794c6285bc9233239.png
  • Total Weight = 75 Tons
  • (586) JBL Loudspeakers
  • (54) Electrovoice Tweeters

 

 

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Wow amazing response!  Thank you!  I have been researching Rock and roll music gear equipment history, but have never seen that pic before.  Incredible.  Thank you!

 

Goes to show that more really is more! Lol!

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16 hours ago, powdermnky007 said:

Looking for amp and pre in the $400-500 range and kinda have my heart set on an old Marantz.  About to go read your in the 2252b suggested above.  

Yeah ... love my Marantz 2252B ... but they are starting to fetch high prices. 

 

You may also want to consider Yamaha. I have a Yamaha CR-620 (35 W/ch) that I got off CraigsList for $100.  Really, really nice sound.  The next model in that series, CR-820, puts out 55W and you can usually find them for $150-$250.  Next is the Yammy CR-1020 at 75W ... but "hard to find." (But stay away from the CR-**40 series; a certain part in it goes bad after 30 years and NO replacement.

 

Last ... Sansui. Many consider Sansui the "best" sounding vintage amp. And they are still "affordable."

 

Cheers, Emile

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Make sure to budget in to have any older amp or receiver renovated to near new performance if it's not already been done.  You can't trust 40+ year old electrolytics.

 

And welcome back!

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Since you are considering vintage solid state, a Harman Kardon Twin Powered Receiver would match up well.  I'm running a pair of KG4 speakers on an HK630 (30WPC) and it rocks them. The HK730 (40WPC) sounds even better IMO on Klipsch speakers (my brother runs Lascalas on an HK730).  I cannot say whether it is better than the Marantz 2200b.  There are a couple of HK730 receivers on ebay now.  The HK430 (25WPC) and works great on on my Heresys and Khorns, but the higher powered Harman Kardons might be better on your KGs.

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After reading all the replies and doing many, many, many hours of research on Marantz receivers I've landed on the 2245.  There is less than 1 db of difference between 45 watt amp and 52 watt amp.  The search is on for a fully refurbished one.  Thank you all for your valuable input!

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1 hour ago, powdermnky007 said:

After reading all the replies and doing many, many, many hours of research on Marantz receivers I've landed on the 2245

Good luck with the search. Believe you will be happy with it :D  

Did find a 2250 on "offer-up" for a decent price ... $350 ... of course not recapped and not serviced.  https://offerup.com/item/detail/608456329/ 

(But, FYI, not sure I believe all sellers that state "serviced/etc.")  May want to think about buying used and having it serviced by a local tech with a good reputation.

Cheers, Emile

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