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Forte II vs RF83 surprise.


Carlosrs

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What amplifier do more knowledgeble souls recommend for the Forte II?? I will be using a 200 watt Sunfire Ultimate Receiver until I get something upgraded. This receiver is 98% of my separates with the convenience of 1 box.

 

Was thinking maybe tubes?? What do you suggest??

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Positioning is going to make a big difference with the forte II's also may need to angle the cabinets up a little bit as the horns are significantly lower than on the 83's. I recently compared my RF-5's to a set of forte II's and had the same reaction as you until I angled them up and got that mid horn firing at ear level, even then I felt they were both in the same ball park as far as sound quality goes. 

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20 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Positioning is going to make a big difference with the forte

This^^

 

The Forte can make a sound stage that comes close to being 3D, or the speakers disappear, rather than sound coming from the cabinets. I have had to move them several times to get them to the perfect spot. I never got the same quality of imaging from my RF63 or RF83. Also, as far as moving air, the 83 vs Chorus II would be a closer match up. 

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1 hour ago, Carlosrs said:

What amplifier do more knowledgeble souls recommend for the Forte II?? 

 

Was thinking maybe tubes?? What do you suggest??

 

I just worked out a deal for a new Carverfest 20wpc tube amp from a Carveraudio forum member, should be arriving hopefully before next weekend. I've had the factory built VTA-20's before and really liked the way they sound up to their power limits, the Carverfest amps are supposedly better than those. Angelo is the guy making them right now, might be able to work out a deal with him if you're interested. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/bob-carver-amplifier/332888156199?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

 

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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

I just worked out a deal for a new Carverfest 20wpc tube amp from a Carveraudio forum member, should be arriving hopefully before next weekend. I've had the factory built VTA-20's before and really liked the way they sound up to their power limits, the Carverfest amps are supposedly better than those. Angelo is the guy making them right now, might be able to work out a deal with him if you're interested. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/bob-carver-amplifier/332888156199?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

 

 

These look really nice!! I usually go fo higher power, but then again, I have never tried something like this! How would it compare to an Ultimate with its 200 watts?

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16 hours ago, Carlosrs said:

These look really nice!! I usually go fo higher power, but then again, I have never tried something like this! How would it compare to an Ultimate with its 200 watts?

 

Its pretty universally agreed over at the Carver forum the Carver tube amps sound better than the Sunfire amps (slightly more detailed, wider deeper soundstage and a little more life-like sound) the little amps just don't have near the brute force or output so room size and acoustics along with sensitivity of the speakers / how loud you listen etc all play a huge role in whether or not 20 watts would be enough for you or not. Just going by my past experiences the 20 watts is a bit deceiving as it seemed to play at least as loud as half volume of the Sunfire Receiver maybe slightly less than half with my Chorus II's 101db w/ 1 watt but plenty loud for most at least in my room at that time.  

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I usually don't listen very loud, BUT!! I just moved the Fortes to my office today, an old studio, and unfortunately found that the extensive acoustic treatment KILLS the life and bass of the Fortes, they sounded better and more alive in my living room. I am not a basshead but they need a sub, and power to handle that room. Will try with an RSW10D and see how it goes.

 

Tried with the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver.

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1 hour ago, Carlosrs said:

Tried with the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver.

Do you have the settings set to large with the sub turned off? Crossover should be set at 160 with the enhanced turned on if that doesn't wake them up not sure what will

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32 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

Do you have the settings set to large with the sub turned off? Crossover should be set at 160 with the enhanced turned on if that doesn't wake them up not sure what will

I didnt get to play alot with it today, just reset to factory default. Tomorrow will check because it doesnt make sense that a room could suck SO muh life from them.

Thanks for the heads up!!👍

 

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57 minutes ago, Carlosrs said:

I didnt get to play alot with it today, just reset to factory default. Tomorrow will check because it doesnt make sense that a room could suck SO muh life from them.

Thanks for the heads up!!👍

 

No problem! Make sure all of the other speakers are turned off as well it makes a difference. 

 

As far as positioning the fortes I'd start at about 8 inches off the back wall and about a foot or so from the side walls if possible close to the corners move them away from the side walls if the bass is too much in a little closer if there's not enough bass but right around 8 inches is where you want to be from the back walls give or take a couple inches.

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Sounds like more of a positioning issue. You need to be mindful of the rear passive radiator. Many overestimate power requirements. They need to be just right as far as distance from the back wall is concerned. An inch can do it. There really are no short cuts, a matter of gently noodling around with them, when it hits you’ll know it.

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I checked all the settings, played with the position and all is good now.  I think they were set to small and crossover at 80mhz default.  They are sitting 6 feet from each other, like 10 inches from the back wall and around 5 feet each from their respective side walls. I am using 14 awg speaker cable now and tomorrow will switch to double 14 agw, effectively an 11 awg, maybe that helps a little the low end too.

 

Will upgrade the caps and internal wiring to 11 awg tomorrow, lets see how that works out.  Was maybe thinking of glueing a washer to the back of the passive radiator(apparently max 2.5 oz), supposedly this helps them dig deeper??? Got some Dynamat for internal damping of the cabinet and the passive radiator metal brace. Will play with the angle a little tilted up to compensate for how low they sit?

 

All these upgrades and tweaking could work for the better or worse, but it sure is fun though!!!

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When I had my Forte 1s right next to my RF-63s, they were tilted up a few degrees with a a couple of pieces wood(1.5 inches) in order for the midrange to shoot straight at my ears while seated.  I switched positions more than once in testing and the RF-63s equaled or bettered with most types of music.   None of those results take away the greatness of the Fortes but just reinforces the musicality of the RF-63s.

 

Bill

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9 hours ago, pzannucci said:

Interesting thread.

Now that you have worked on position, how much different do the speakers sound and why?

The correct positioning helped with the bass.  I also change the speaker wire from 14 AWG to 11AWG, installed the Crites crossover upgraded caps, switched the crossover cable to the woofer from 18 awg to 14 awg.

At the end everything helped, now I am really digging these speakers a lot!!!

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9 hours ago, willland said:

When I had my Forte 1s right next to my RF-63s, the were tilted up a few degrees with a a couple of pieces wood(1.5 inches) in order for the midrange to shoot straight at my ears while seated.  I switched positions more than once in testing and the RF-63s equaled or bettered with most types of music.   None of those results take away the greatness of the Fortes but just reinforces the musicality of the RF-63s.

 

Bill

Agreed!! I don't see myself replacing my RF83 or RF63 for these Forte II, but now that I have them dialed in they are truly magnificent speakers!!

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