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Two way KPT-402/K-69-A active settings


Ivaols

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2 hours ago, rplace said:

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the xilica graph possibly matter? It can't know anything about you speaker/room. Isn't it just showing you your particular settings in a visual Manor? A boost here and there.  Nothing to do with results. For that you would need the REW sweep(s) to, hopefully, see a flat-ish reading or where more adjustments are needed.

 

You say the REW readings are crazy too. Do they mimic the xilica?

 

I'm trying to understand everything about my xilica 2-way set up. Wondering if I am missing the point. 

 

Any explanation of what the shelf settings are/do would be appreciated.

 

 

Actually, I was displaying my ignorance.  Of course you're right,  the Xilica graph doesn't correlate with FR.   The point isn't to make the Xilica graph into a smooth curve.  Again you're right, the REW sweeps are what we must look at to see the results of these Xilica changes.  Sorry to all.

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Just now, Delicious2 said:

Actually, I was displaying my ignorance.  Of course you're right,  the Xilica graph doesn't correlate with FR.   The point isn't to make the Xilica graph into a smooth curve.  Again you're right, the REW sweeps are what we must look at to see the results of these Xilica changes.  Sorry to all.

 

No apology necessary. I was wondering if I was not thinking about things correctly. I've had my Xilica for only about 6 months and still learning. One day I love it the next I swear I'm gonna scrap it and go back to passive networks. @Chris A knows all the secrets. He is a great resource and will help you get on the right path.

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Actually, Roy Delgado, Klipsch Pro Engr. Lead, knows it all--relatively speaking and I'm sure there are others at Klipsch with about the same knowledge and experience--but time is usually kind of short to get into the weeds with direct help and explanations from the lead design staff at level where the rest of us mere mortals can grasp the outpouring of wisdom. 

 

Roy probably needs a couple of young apprentices to carry the torch (if he doesn't already have a couple), especially considering when the time comes to punch out--just like PWK apparently did for him. 

 

The sort of DSP direct support that you see here would be nice if Klipsch itself used it to strengthen the brand even further.  [But that's usually controlled at a higher level in the organization that does the "senior management".  It's those guys that really determine where the company goes in the future--not the stockholders.]

 

Chris

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4 hours ago, rplace said:

Pardon my ignorance, but what does the xilica graph possibly matter? It can't know anything about you speaker/room. Isn't it just showing you your particular settings in a visual Manor? A boost here and there.  Nothing to do with results. For that you would need the REW sweep(s) to, hopefully, see a flat-ish reading or where more adjustments are needed.

 

You say the REW readings are crazy too. Do they mimic the xilica?

 

I'm trying to understand everything about my xilica 2-way set up. Wondering if I am missing the point. 

 

Any explanation of what the shelf settings are/do would be appreciated.

 

 

Yes, the REW measurement looks like the graph in Xilica. I did not save the REW measurements, that's why I only show the Xilica graph. If the measurements with REW looked good I would not be bothered with how it look in Xilica. 

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I had a successful night. The latest settings from Chris A. are the correct ones. Only lowered one of the PEQs from plus 4.5db to 1.5db and the K402 measured very good in the sweetspot. The frequency range up to 300hz has more peaks and dips and I'll attack that tomorrow with the EQ function in REW. I  only use attenuation, no boosting. 

 

Also sent Chris A the file from REW. 

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Time for a update. FIrst of all, thanks again to Chris A for the extensive support! After Three rounds where I emailed him measurement files, the sound I have now is the best I have ever had. Feels like its the first time I really hear the potential from the K402 horns after they are dialed in.

 

The Attached REW measurement is with 1/3 octave smoothing. I have not done anything with the peaks in the sub region yet and maybe I look into that tonight.

 

 

Both speakers and subs.jpg

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There is a problem with constant hssss sound from the K402 horns. I am driving them with ATI AT3000. The sound is not coming from the receiver. Can anyone point me in the direction of a amp with low gain and low noise? Not expensive… ;)

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On 3/8/2019 at 6:45 PM, Ivaols said:

Current Xilica graph

Xilica HF.JPG

Huh.  So although the point isn’t to make this Xilica curve look like the hoped for FR curve, it is alot smoother now.  And the shelves are gone.  Maybe I was on the right track.  I suspect the point is to measure the actual output FR in room not just plug in someone else’s settings 😸

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28 minutes ago, Delicious2 said:

 I suspect the point is to measure the actual output FR in room not just plug in someone else’s settings 😸

Yes. 

 

The difference in subjective listening performance is like the difference between the living and the dead, IME. 

 

There is a great deal of difference, I've found, especially after the early reflections from within 3-4 feet (a metre) of the loudspeaker and the listener's positions have been controlled via absorption (and/or extensive broadband diffusion over 200-7,000 Hz).  This is really easy to see within REW by looking at the group delay plots (treated--yellow trace, untreated-blue green trace) after EQing both sets of loudspeakers to flat response:

 

469598584_ComparisonofTreatedvs.untreatedroomTAD-4002JubileeGroupDelay.thumb.jpg.4251812dc0b3a6e6156bd6921d5148a6.jpg

 

Chris

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5 hours ago, Delicious2 said:

Huh.  So although the point isn’t to make this Xilica curve look like the hoped for FR curve, it is alot smoother now.  And the shelves are gone.  Maybe I was on the right track.  I suspect the point is to measure the actual output FR in room not just plug in someone else’s settings 😸

A couple of rounds with Chris A and it sounds better than ever. This have been really fun :) 

 

The latest experiments shows a favorable lighter yet punchie sound when the level does not start to rise before 150hz and downwards. 

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13 hours ago, Chris A said:

Yes. 

 

The difference in subjective listening performance is like the difference between the living and the dead, IME. 

 

There is a great deal of difference, I've found, especially after the early reflections from within 3-4 feet (a metre) of the loudspeaker and the listener's positions have been controlled via absorption (and/or extensive broadband diffusion over 200-7,000 Hz).  This is really easy to see within REW by looking at the group delay plots (treated--yellow trace, untreated-blue green trace) after EQing both sets of loudspeakers to flat response:

 

469598584_ComparisonofTreatedvs.untreatedroomTAD-4002JubileeGroupDelay.thumb.jpg.4251812dc0b3a6e6156bd6921d5148a6.jpg

 

Chris

 

Easy to see is right!  I'll guess I'll just have to hear the auditory difference for myself.  I've been meaning to get serious about room treatments for a long while now.  Would you recommend the OP and I follow you down the absorption path with Auralex Sonofiber?

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8 hours ago, Ivaols said:

A couple of rounds with Chris A and it sounds better than ever. This have been really fun :) 

 

The latest experiments shows a favorable lighter yet punchie sound when the level does not start to rise before 150hz and downwards. 

 

 

Bravo!  Now you hear the power of getting some of the fundamentals correct.  A real ear opener for me!

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