Did Academia Kill Jazz?

[ClaudeJ1]

Just now, Jeff Matthews said:

?

Miles Davis Beothches Brew "Spanish Key" is THE free form Jazz Jam of all time!

[ClaudeJ1]

Ed Love on WDET, a Detroit Public Radio plays classic jazz. Fabulous stuff!

 

[Seadog]

Academia may be the best hope to keep Jazz going into the next generation.  Last evening I attended the "Spring Sing" at my son's high school.  He is a senior and the lead trombonist in their "Jazz Catz" band which is composed mostly of students, with a few parents, and several band teachers and private lesson instructors.  They were fabulous.  They performed at least 13 tunes including "One O’Clock Jump" (Count Basie), "The Girl From Ipanema" (Gilberto & Getz), "Sing, Sing, Sing" (Louis Prima),  "In The Mood" (Glen Miller), and "Pick Up The Pieces" (Average White Band).

 

It was great to see the kids playing this music and loving it.

[DizRotus]

No, it was generally heroin.

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Miles Davis Beothches Brew "Spanish Key" is THE free form Jazz Jam of all time!

It was featured in the movie "Collateral" with Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx. The actor playing the trumpet player on stage was "pretend" playing it (as all actors do), but it was the original recording being played, then had a Miles Trivia quiz by Cruise's character.

[ClaudeJ1]

That album CREATED Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, and Weather Report, Deodato with John Tropea, Herbie Hancock (met him and photographed him in NYC at a Canon Party) and all the Jazz from Creed Taylor, also Tony Williams Lifetime.

 

from Wikipedia: "Brew is a studio double album by American jazz musician Miles Davis, released on March 30, 1970, on Columbia Records. It continued his experimentation with electric instruments previously featured on his critically acclaimed album In a Silent Way. With the use of these instruments, such as the electric piano and guitar, Davis rejected traditional jazz rhythms in favor of a looser, rock-influenced improvisational style. It initially received a mixed response, due to the album's unconventional style and experimental sound, but became Davis's first gold record,^] selling more than half a million copies."

 

[Chris A]

Okay, so it looks like we're a bit stalled on the theme of the thread.  Perhaps a quote might help to pull it back on track (and please excuse some of the colorful language by Miles Davis--from the book Miles on Miles, pg. 260) :

 

 

The question is...if Jazz is dead, then why do we have so many musicians claiming the genre for the music that they play, and where did all the Jazz musicians go 50 years ago (1969) that played Jazz the year that Miles declared it dead?

 

Chris

[Jeff Matthews]

16 minutes ago, Chris A said:

The question is...if Jazz is dead, then why do we have so many musicians claiming the genre for the music that they play, and where did all the Jazz musicians go 50 years ago (1969) that played Jazz the year that Miles declared it dead?

Smaller venues.  Kind of like watching formerly big rock stars play in night clubs.  I never would have thought classic rock would die, but it's almost gone.  In 30 years, hardly anyone will be very familiar with it.

[oldtimer]

It's dead in the same sense that Nietzsche declared God dead.  Chew on that.

[Bosco-d-gama]

If one steps above the debate there’s evidence of the classic artists lament. My own brother suffers from this misery. He’s an artist with a profoundly innate talent coupled with formal education that allows him a skill set capable of doing anything extraordinarily well. I’ve seen him take a napkin and a pencil and produce portraits with insane realism in short order. But he likes graphic art and ONLY graphic art. If you do not like his tastes - you - are a sad pitiful dolt. And after a lifetime of this attitude he is dirt poor and despises his own talent. He thought he alone knew best and other artists and art genres were just unacceptable - period. 

 

So how narrow do we focus our own musical tastes? Do we agree with the notion that the musician drives listening trends or that listeners should define musical trends? Yeah from a purely academic definition we can parse out musical categories to organize the subject for whatever purposes - but - nobody ‘killed’ anything, as in premeditated malice. People enjoy what they like. That’s all. Music flows and evolves. Fortunately we never lose music and those of us with good equipment can enjoy anything WE like, anytime.

 

 I can’t remember the city but here’s how this can be utilized. The city had too many young adults gathering in one of the main public venues and was suffering from associated crimes, etc. Their solution was to play classical music and only classical music in the area. The younger crowds thinned, leaving the arena to those not offended by Bach. 

[Chris A]

I think you know that Jazz isn't "going away in 30 years".  It's still with us 50 years after being declared dead by one of its major figureheads--quoted above.  It's healthy and growing.  UNT Lab band program is still going strong, as are the other Jazz programs at local universities and colleges, and artists still seem to pop up that are doing well (e.g., Esperanza Spalding  and others).  The genre sees popularity recurrences often (like other genres of music) and produces new albums with new music that are still charted and given Grammys.  I've got a shelves full of Jazz, Fusion, Smooth Jazz, Ambience, Latin, and "Pop" (which aren't really Pop--but Jazz) CDs that continues to grow over time with new albums offering new music.

 

Jazz is not dead.  I think that we just don't always refer to it as Jazz, however.

 

The question (yet again) is "where do you see Jazz influencing other music genres today?"  (I'm somewhat surprised up to this point that no one yet has realized that the difference between Rock and Progressive Rock--is the latter genre's Jazz and Classical roots.)

 

Chris

[Jeff Matthews]

32 minutes ago, Chris A said:

I think you know that Jazz isn't "going away in 30 years".

I didn't mean it literally.  Frank Sinatra is still remembered by many of us who are 50+.  You won't see many people under 30 listening to him, though.  Those 30 year-olds will be 60 year-olds in 30 years, and most of us will be dead.  

 

32 minutes ago, Chris A said:

The question (yet again) is "where do you see Jazz influencing other music genres today?" 

They all borrow from each other.  I have no concerns that it has no influence.  

[Jeff Matthews]

59 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

If one steps above the debate there’s evidence of the classic artists lament. My own brother suffers from this misery. He’s an artist with a profoundly innate talent coupled with formal education that allows him a skill set capable of doing anything extraordinarily well. I’ve seen him take a napkin and a pencil and produce portraits with insane realism in short order. But he likes graphic art and ONLY graphic art. If you do not like his tastes - you - are a sad pitiful dolt. And after a lifetime of this attitude he is dirt poor and despises his own talent. He thought he alone knew best and other artists and art genres were just unacceptable - period. 

 

So how narrow do we focus our own musical tastes? Do we agree with the notion that the musician drives listening trends or that listeners should define musical trends? Yeah from a purely academic definition we can parse out musical categories to organize the subject for whatever purposes - but - nobody ‘killed’ anything, as in premeditated malice. People enjoy what they like. That’s all. Music flows and evolves. Fortunately we never lose music and those of us with good equipment can enjoy anything WE like, anytime.

 

 I can’t remember the city but here’s how this can be utilized. The city had too many young adults gathering in one of the main public venues and was suffering from associated crimes, etc. Their solution was to play classical music and only classical music in the area. The younger crowds thinned, leaving the arena to those not offended by Bach. 

I agree.  I don't like modern music (the vast majority of it), but I don't fault the younger generations for liking it.  Many of us older folks want to think it's a marketing scheme to force-feed the public to accept crappier music.  I disagree.  I think people do the voting, and if they wanted Ritchie Blackmore, they'd be clamoring for him to come to town.

[Chris A]

Are there other genres that Jazz plays as a major contributor in another named music genre?   I see many music genres that have music theory roots.

 

Chris

[Bosco-d-gama]

Music evolution now sets at a more interesting threshold. Technology has been encroaching on music for decades. Our own electromechanical stereo rigs are freqeuntly compared to live music. Then we started seeing digitalized instrumentation initially played by human hands then subsequently performed by computers, with and without human interaction. Now we have artificial intelligence (AI) that will surely be able to understand and dissect human music cognition. AI will know the human preference for the 5/4 meter of Brubecks ‘Take Five’ , etc. AI will be able to write, produce and perform music to individual human tastes and will actually evolve new types of music based upon listener feedback loops. Computers will be able to wholly take over music production for the sole purpose of pleasing humanity. Like bringing calculators to math class digitalized music has become integrated into music class. Newer computers are precise and limitless in their applications. Perhaps in time computers will evolve the ability to enjoy music on their own. Then we will have ‘singularity’ with computers producing music for computers to appreciate. We will become dinosaurs mere vestiges of days long past. Hmmmm...... days of future passed. Prophetic huh?

[Chris A]

3 hours ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

If one steps above the debate there’s evidence of the classic artists lament. My own brother suffers from this misery. He’s an artist with a profoundly innate talent coupled with formal education that allows him a skill set capable of doing anything extraordinarily well. I’ve seen him take a napkin and a pencil and produce portraits with insane realism in short order. But he likes graphic art and ONLY graphic art. If you do not like his tastes - you - are a sad pitiful dolt. And after a lifetime of this attitude he is dirt poor and despises his own talent. He thought he alone knew best and other artists and art genres were just unacceptable - period. 

 

So how narrow do we focus our own musical tastes? Do we agree with the notion that the musician drives listening trends or that listeners should define musical trends? Yeah from a purely academic definition we can parse out musical categories to organize the subject for whatever purposes - but - nobody ‘killed’ anything, as in premeditated malice. People enjoy what they like. That’s all. Music flows and evolves. Fortunately we never lose music and those of us with good equipment can enjoy anything WE like, anytime.

 

 I can’t remember the city but here’s how this can be utilized. The city had too many young adults gathering in one of the main public venues and was suffering from associated crimes, etc. Their solution was to play classical music and only classical music in the area. The younger crowds thinned, leaving the arena to those not offended by Bach. 

 

31 minutes ago, Bosco-d-gama said:

Music evolution now sets at a more interesting threshold. Technology has been encroaching on music for decades. Our own electromechanical stereo rigs are freqeuntly compared to live music. Then we started seeing digitalized instrumentation initially played by human hands then subsequently performed by computers, with and without human interaction. Now we have artificial intelligence (AI) that will surely be able to understand and dissect human music cognition. AI will know the human preference for the 5/4 meter of Brubecks ‘Take Five’ , etc. AI will be able to write, produce and perform music to individual human tastes and will actually evolve new types of music based upon listener feedback loops. Computers will be able to wholly take over music production for the sole purpose of pleasing humanity. Like bringing calculators to math class digitalized music has become integrated into music class. Newer computers are precise and limitless in their applications. Perhaps in time computers will evolve the ability to enjoy music on their own. Then we will have ‘singularity’ with computers producing music for computers to appreciate. We will become dinosaurs mere vestiges of days long past. Hmmmm...... days of future passed. Prophetic huh?

 

Actually, I started this thread on the topic of  "Jazz as a genre and how it's morphed into other genres over time"...not AI and "being above the debate", unfortunately.  I see nothing on the subject of this thread in your posts. 

 

Is there a reason you feel you must change the subject here? 

 

Can I start a thread on either of those other two subjects for you?  It's not a problem.  I've helped others do that in the past.

 

Chris

[oldtimer]

2 hours ago, Chris A said:

Are there other genres that Jazz plays as a major contributor in another named music genre?   I see many music genres that have music theory roots.

 

Chris

In some cases....gag....musicals.....cough.....washing mouth out with wine.

[Bosco-d-gama]

46 minutes ago, Chris A said:

 

 

Actually, I started this thread on the topic of  "Jazz as a genre and how it's morphed into other genres over time"...not AI and "being above the debate", unfortunately.  I see nothing on the subject of this thread in your posts. 

 

Is there a reason you feel you must change the subject here? 

 

Can I start a thread on either of those other two subjects for you?  It's not a problem.  I've helped others do that in the past.

 

Chris

Just adding perspectives. I did consider starting a new thread on AI but it was your thread that lead me there so I shared it here. Sorry if that upset you😔😔.

[Chris A]

You didn't upset me, but I would like to keep this thread on the subject of the referenced article, and its extension into where the genre of Jazz has gone.  Your subjects are fine--just not in context of this thread. 

 

I can even ask that this thread to be closed to further replies if its presence represents some sort of threat to readers here.  It was only a reaction to that article, which was published just recently.

 

Chris

[MeloManiac]

I only learned to appreciate jazz in my twenties - I'm almost 50 now. I love listening to jazz standards such as A Kind of Blue and A Love Supreme. For me, jazz is here to stay. I still continue to discover great music on recent albums. My latest discovery is Brian Bromberg, an extremely gifted electric and acoustic bass player. Fists of Fury (Kamasi Washington) is another one I like to play loud on Klipsch speakers!

 

I'd like to compare jazz with baroque music. Baroque music is the music typically composed between 1600 and 1750. In the 19th century, there was a Bach Revival, and of course, baroque is still very popular nowadays. I'm convinced jazz is similar, there 's going to be a succession of jazz revivals, and from time to time, great (new) jazz artists will come and go...