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Why we need audiophiles

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1 hour ago, Edgar said:

That said, the additional trash added by six feet of line cord, if any, isn't lik

 

Heck I’ve in a few rare occasions serviced equipment where an electrical trace layout on a circuit board was enough to pickup a radio station which was then amplified and heard through the system.

 

miketn

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48 minutes ago, mikebse2a3 said:

Heck I’ve in a few rare occasions serviced equipment where an electrical trace layout on a circuit board was enough to pickup a radio station which was then amplified and heard through the system.

 

That's almost always due to something like a cold solder joint acting as a diode detector, or such a strong radio signal that one of the components is driven into nonlinearity. Possible but unlikely with a line cord, but if it does happen, it's probably because the cord is faulty.

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7 hours ago, kevinmi said:

If all the vinyl naysayers would spend as much time and money on an analog system, you might find that today's vinyl isn't full of clicks and pops, just music reproduced the way it's supposed to be.

  Funny how Best Buy quit selling CD's and is selling Vinyl. More and more music is being remastered on vinyl everyday. Sure, digital can be more convenient, but you lose the whole tactile interface that flipping a vinyl lp over has to offer. And liner notes, posters, etc that come with a vinyl lp. I feel sorry for the digital crowd.

I wouldn't feel too bad for us. Many are early CD adopters like myself who tired of flipping the album, putting up with special cleaning rituals, anti-static guns, snap crackle and pop, replacing cartridges, looking for better sounding cartridges etc etc. To each his own, but I've been there done that and jumped on the CD train as soon as it first pulled into the station.

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Well......as with almost everything in the lost art....in the middle is where the real deal is. Albums sound great. When I played "Bloody well Right" by Supertramp on a Marantz TT, Cornwalls and a classic old Magnavox powerhouse like I've never seen before or since (78 ?), MAGIC. So great I or my friends will never forget it. Then cds came along and were great. Well recorded music sounds great on cd. I'd rather hear a good recording on cd than a poor recording on the master. Of course sacd and dvda are the pinnacle currently for me.

 

Speaker cables, you need good ones, 14/12g decent grade copper in durable jacket . Power, a shielded cable is great, what I use when needed, of 14g if possible. Shielded interconnects are advisable. Basic common sense gets you most of the way to great HIFI. Money will get you the last bit, but no need to waste any, just spend wisely. It's just an opinion, that's what all this is basically and I'm one post closer to breaking 5 thousand. That's a lot of BS.

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1 hour ago, Edgar said:

 

That's almost always due to something like a cold solder joint acting as a diode detector, or such a strong radio signal that one of the components is driven into nonlinearity. Possible but unlikely with a line cord, but if it does happen, it's probably because the cord is faulty.

 

Edgar yes I have fixed similar issues more often by finding a bad solder joints as well. 

 

In the particular situation I was referring to Hafler themselves was aware of some rare instances where this could happen in their DH110 preamp and sent me instructions on a solution for these units.

 

 

As far as the line cord cord causing this particular symptom I agree it’s very unlikely but my point is RF interference can work it’s way into equipment in unexpected ways which along with other contributing factors might in some situations lead to some slight but perceptible difference when it is eliminated.

 

 

miketn

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Sure, digital can be more convenient, but you lose the whole tactile interface that flipping a vinyl lp over has to offer. And liner notes, posters, etc that come with a vinyl lp. I feel sorry for the digital crowd.


Yeah, that used to be cool. Well, it still is.......but nowadays, all I need is a couple things to be happy.

1. A music library that consists of 10 zillion songs.
2. Tubes
3. Subwoofers the size of a Hyundai
4. EQ in the digital domain
5. Room treatments
6. Replace all the original parts in my speakers for better ones (ouch!)
7. More tubes
8. Pro-amps and DSP to power the subwoofers the size of a Hyundai

I'm a simple man and easy to please. (Unless it has to do with audio)


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Interesting article, however he is a bit over the top for me. There is hobby and then there is obsession.Even were I to have near unlimited funds, my nature would not allow me to sink so much into an entertainment/sound system.

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1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

As far as the line cord cord causing this particular symptom I agree it’s very unlikely but my point is RF interference can work it’s way into equipment in unexpected ways which along with other contributing factors might in some situations lead to some slight but perceptible difference when it is eliminated.

 

That was rather my point earlier.  Not the line cord doing it.

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5 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

I'm currently working in the powerline communications industry. Oh, my; if you all knew just how much trash is on the powerline, you'd power everything off of batteries and never plug your audio equipment in to the electrical network again. That said, the additional trash added by six feet of line cord, if any, isn't likely to have much effect.

 

The idea of premium cables is that they not only don't pick up any extra interference, they suppress what's already there.  The power cords I'm using now have toroidal filters on them, which should suppress some of the "trash" on the line.

 

Power line conditioners do that, too.  I use Tripp-Lite Isobar Ultra conditioners, which are designed for office use, to suppress online noise from printers and other electrically noisy devices.  They also do a good job for audio and video systems, which includes line noise from Class D amplifiers.  As soon as I installed them, I noticed that the TV had blacker blacks, which was an unexpected but pleasant bonus.

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What about having a Honda generator outside on standby only to be used to power your system for listening sessions?

I remember reading that some hard core audiophiles in Japan were doing this. Don't know what kind of generators they were using, though.

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9 minutes ago, SWL said:

Don't know what kind of generators they were using, though.

Honda

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It occurs to me that the cable skeptics have never tried any different cables to see for themselves what differences they might hear.  The attitude seems to be "Cables can't make any difference, it's all snake oil, so there's no point in experimenting with them, because it won't make any difference."  Sound about right?

 

I used the usual 16 or 18 gauge zip/lamp cord for decades, then I had my old BK (Before Klipsch) speakers upgraded, which included replacing the old spring clips with modern binding posts.  This meant that I could try bigger cables, so I got some 12 gauge and hooked it up.  To my surprise, the very familiar speakers suddenly had improved dynamics.  Wow!  A year later, I spotted some Monster Cable Reference (I think that was the model) speaker cables, which were the right length and had terminations already on them, so I could just plug them in and enjoy them.  Nope!  They changed the sound of the system so much and so badly that I didn't even want to listen to it.  I listened for a couple of days to be sure, and then returned them.

 

However, the results of using the 12 gauge were interesting enough that I decided to try even bigger sizes and ordered some 8 gauge Karma Kable from Knukonceptz.  Yes!  The dynamics were even further improved, and the fact that they were twisted pair instead of side-by-side should help them reject some of the RFI in the area.

 

So that's how I came to the conclusions that I still hold.  No fast-talking salesman fooled me, nor any misleading audio magazine or website articles misled me.  It's based on experience, with both non-Klipsch and Klipsch speakers.  The high-sensitivity Klipsch speakers may be a bit less sensitive to cable size, but it still makes a difference.

 

Try it.  You might like it!  And it's not that expensive.  The Karma SS (Smoke & Silver colour) Kable in 8 AWG is still only $1.65 a foot, more than ten years later.  100 feet of it is only $98.99.  It's made of ultra-fine strands of high purity OFC tin-plated copper, which will never corrode.  And you'll know that you didn't overlook at least one possible weak link in your system.

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49 minutes ago, Islander said:

The idea of premium cables is that they not only don't pick up any extra interference, they suppress what's already there.  The power cords I'm using now have toroidal filters on them, which should suppress some of the "trash" on the line.

 

Most of the filters that I have seen suppress RF frequencies. I'm talking about trash in the audio band. I can easily see the 100th harmonic of 60 Hz, and beyond, in a spectrogram. Powerline communications operate below about 1 kHz, at least in North America. Inverters that allow DC solar and wind power to enter the AC grid create harmonic nightmares. This is in addition to the problems that most people already know about.

 

Quote

Power line conditioners do that, too.  I use Tripp-Lite Isobar Ultra conditioners, which are designed for office use, to suppress online noise from printers and other electrically noisy devices.  They also do a good job for audio and video systems, which includes line noise from Class D amplifiers.  As soon as I installed them, I noticed that the TV had blacker blacks, which was an unexpected but pleasant bonus.

 

I thought that conditioners were silly until I started analyzing the powerline. I don't have any in my system right now, but that will change as $$$ becomes available.

 

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52 minutes ago, Islander said:

Try it.  You might like it!  And it's not that expensive.  The Karma SS (Smoke & Silver colour) Kable in 8 AWG is still only $1.65 a foot, more than ten years later.  100 feet of it is only $98.99.  It's made of ultra-fine strands of high purity OFC tin-plated copper, which will never corrode.  And you'll know that you didn't overlook at least one possible weak link in your system.

I just man handled about 100' of their 10 Ga into my system for the Jube bass bins. As much work as my install was I'm just glad it works. Can't say if there is any sonic improvement but it sure looks nice, the silver and smokey grey spiral conductors. And the wire it replaced is gone so no side by side comparisons can be made now.

BTW I think it's the 10 ga that's $98.99 per 100'.

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9 minutes ago, Edgar said:

 

I thought that conditioners were silly until I started analyzing the powerline. I don't have any in my system right now, but that will change as $$$ becomes available.

 

 

The Tripp-Lite conditioners aren't that expensive, around $100 each, possibly because they're sold as pro office/commercial units, not audiophile gear.  They have isolated filter banks, 3 with the 6-outlet models, and 4 with the 8-outlet models.  They're claimed to suppress noise travelling from one component to other components in your system, as well as noise coming in from the wall outlets.  I've had mine for about 10 years with no issues.

 

Here's the info on the Isobar 8Ultra:  https://www.tripplite.com/isobar-8-outlet-surge-protector-12-ft-cord-3840-joules~ISOBAR8ULTRA

 

And the whole range:  https://www.tripplite.com/products/surge-protectors~19?2029=Premium Isobar

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12 minutes ago, babadono said:

I just man handled about 100' of their 10 Ga into my system for the Jube bass bins. As much work as my install was I'm just glad it works. Can't say if there is any sonic improvement but it sure looks nice, the silver and smokey grey spiral conductors. And the wire it replaced is gone so no side by side comparisons can be made now.

BTW I think it's the 10 ga that's $98.99 per 100'.

 

You are right.  There doesn't seem to be a listing for 100 foot lengths of 8 AWG, but it's likely available.

 

I found the cable a pleasure to work with, since the very fine strands can be cut gently with a knife, rather than with side cutters like with most wires.  The extra weight is a factor, so it may be necessary to support them to avoid the cables pulling down on the speaker terminals.  When they were connected to the 1st-gen La Scalas, I just passed each cable around the K400 support bracket.  With the LS2s, I use little plastic cable holders attached to the backs of the cabinets, using screws that were already on the cabinets.  Easy!

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2 hours ago, YK Thom said:

Interesting article, however he is a bit over the top for me.

 

We need audiophiles to explain audio concepts they don't fully grasp to people in words that nobody understands.

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44 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I thought that conditioners were silly until I started analyzing the powerline. I don't have any in my system right now, but that will change as $$$ becomes available.

 

What would you buy?

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11 hours ago, ODS123 said:

That said, I don't think vinyl sounds better.  ...I think that's just our romanticized attachment to the format influencing what we hear.   ..But at it's best it sounds damn good.  ..It's incredible to think you're hearing a tiny chip of stone dragging across a plastic disc.  Simply amazing.

 

Seriously? 

 

Why put up with all the fooling around if it doesn’t sound better? 

 

Oh, I forgot, everything sounds the same to you....

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6 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

 

We need audiophiles to explain audio concepts they don't understand, to people in words nobody else understands.

How true.

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