Are Your Capacitors Installed Backwards ??

[Deang]

Why isn’t @ODS123 in here helping us beat back this pestilence. Help us OD1, you’re our only hope!

[Deang]

The Altec 802D is nice, but it’s not the end all in compression drivers. 

 

Ever change out those diaphragms? If not, I’m sure they’re work hardened. 

 

You have no baffle for your horn. Ruh-oh. 

 

 

[Deang]

Great Folks down at Great Plains. I’m sure your drivers sound really nice. 

[seti]

Take it down a few notches. Your approach is wrong man. Dharma not Dogma. I hate to sound like a hippie but dang. There is more than one path.

 

I agree with only a couple things in this thread. I am living with a klipsch two way fully horn loaded system in a smallish room. The amplifier is a design given to me by Jackson and Slagle. It is direct coupled and might make 2 watts. This little thing is the longest any amp has stayed in my system. The detail and soundstage is beautiful to me. However it is useless for me to go around telling people what I have heard and why they must do it. Everyone has their own audio fetishes but sometimes you keep them to yourself LOL..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CECAA850]

13 hours ago, Deang said:

Help us OD1, you’re our only hope!

I see what you did there.

[Dave A]

14 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

My favorite way of doing this is to use good amps, good wiring, a good source, and simply adjust the time-alignment positioning  by ear.  Typically one can perceive 1/16th of an inch.  With the whole top-end resting on 4 Golf Ball isolation devices, its a cute challenge at my place. 

Hmmm, my guess is it would be a cute challenge at anyone's place. Say that is a new one and I don't remember you addressing source before.  What exactly do you mean and how does one get it? I stopped by the local golf course the other day and I am trying to find matched sets of numbers and identical makes. Now I know you said on capacitors that uf values did not matter as much as matching to a specific manufacturer so does this hold true for golf balls too? Should I be looking for numbers + manufacturer, just numbers alone or just manufacturers alone?

[Dave A]

6 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

I see what you did there.

I have suggested to Jeff that his presence over there would be beneficial but these two seem to be avoiding each other.

[glens]

(Has anyone checked to see if they've ever posted simultaneously, or is it always in sequence?  Hmmm...)

 

That was uncalled for.  My apologies.

[Alexander]

Jeff, in one of your earlier posts about capacitors you made the comment that the uF values were of little importance but rather it was the manufacture for xovers and amps. If true maybe you should call all the cap manufactures out there  and point out to them that they  are wasting their time and money making all of those silly different uF values, right?

 

OK, I will be quiet now.

 

[mikebse2a3]

16 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

My favorite way of doing this is to use good amps, good wiring, a good source, and simply adjust the time-alignment positioning  by ear.  Typically one can perceive 1/16th of an inch.  With the whole top-end resting on 4 Golf Ball isolation devices, its a cute challenge at my place. 

 

Crossover at what frequency for a 2-way?

Time Alignment of 1/16th of an inch..? 🤔

 

A person would have to put his head in a vice for that kind of accuracy.... I bet most people head/body shake that much just sitting still.😄

 

miketn

 

 

[mikebse2a3]

Recording Quality + Loudspeaker Quality + Room Acoustics Quality are the 3 Top determinates of Reproduction Quality a person will experience from his system.

 

These are the 3 weakest links in the reproduction chain and where the most attention, effort and dollars are best spent IMHO.

 

There is no worlds best anything including amplifiers and the designing of them...!!!

 

miketn

[Panelhead]

  This has drifted a little from foil orientation in crossover capacitors discussion.

  The time alignment of the drivers is of interest. My previous speakers had slanted front plinth for time alignment. And first order crossovers.

 I will need to tilt the La Scala ii back to align the K55 and K77. I have seen where some have moved the tweeter and horn out of the cabinet and placed close to the mid compression driver. The K55 compression driver protrudes past the back panel on the LS ii. 

  Aligning the woofer might be very difficult. The mid and tweeter would need to be behind the bass bin. 

  That might be my solution. Remove the top hat and place behind the bass bin. Then tilt top hat to achieve alignment. 

  This will require lengthening the cable from crossover to bass bin. 

  So I am needing some speaker cables and something to balance the top hats on.

[capo72]

2 hours ago, seti said:

Take it down a few notches. Your approach is wrong man. Dharma not Dogma. I hate to sound like a hippie but dang. There is more than one path.

 

I agree with only a couple things in this thread. I am living with a klipsch two way fully horn loaded system in a smallish room. The amplifier is a design given to me by Jackson and Slagle. It is direct coupled and might make 2 watts. This little thing is the longest any amp has stayed in my system. The detail and soundstage is beautiful to me. However it is useless for me to go around telling people what I have heard and why they must do it. Everyone has their own audio fetishes but sometimes you keep them to yourself LOL..... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the smartest comment I have read in this entire thread!

[glens]

1 hour ago, mikebse2a3 said:

Crossover at what frequency for a 2-way?

Time Alignment of 1/16th of an inch..?

 

800 Hz, I believe.  1/16 inch is nominally 5 microseconds of sound travel time in air not terribly far from sea level.  That's damn good resolution by ear!  One wavelength at 800 Hz is going to be all but 17 inches.  1/16 inch therefore represents ~1.3° phase angle.  That's damn good resolution!

[Deang]

1 hour ago, glens said:

 

800 Hz, I believe.  1/16 inch is nominally 5 microseconds of sound travel time in air not terribly far from sea level.  That's damn good resolution by ear!  One wavelength at 800 Hz is going to be all but 17 inches.  1/16 inch therefore represents ~1.3° phase angle.  That's damn good resolution!

 

You’re killing me, lol. 

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, Panelhead said:

  This has drifted a little from foil orientation in crossover capacitors discussion.

  The time alignment of the drivers is of interest. My previous speakers had slanted front plinth for time alignment. And first order crossovers.

 I will need to tilt the La Scala ii back to align the K55 and K77. I have seen where some have moved the tweeter and horn out of the cabinet and placed close to the mid compression driver. The K55 compression driver protrudes past the back panel on the LS ii. 

  Aligning the woofer might be very difficult. The mid and tweeter would need to be behind the bass bin. 

  That might be my solution. Remove the top hat and place behind the bass bin. Then tilt top hat to achieve alignment. 

  This will require lengthening the cable from crossover to bass bin. 

  So I am needing some speaker cables and something to balance the top hats on.

As long as the drivers are within a 1/4 wave envelope at Xover, you are good to go. I believe the LaScalas with K400 meet this criteria. The tweeter, on the other hand, not so much.

[karlson3]

with LS and Khorn, the higher music harmonics arrive to the listener "early" and in front of the midhorn's contribution.  In a reverberant room and listener back some distance, that might not be noticed.  Up close real close, I suspect it can be noticed.  Moving the tweeter's diaphragm region back around that of the mid-horn driver's diaphragm is helpful.  That introduces some new reflections off the top of the midhorn which should be minimized with carpet felt on top of the midrange horn. (assuming a naked horn).

 

Something I noticed with an old FH1/Altec 511-K55V/APT150 setup was that using an autoformer volume control, made the subjective blend more "cohesive" I think the autoformer may have been adding a layer of subtle harmonics.  The amp was just some common class A/B solid state unit. Capacitors were cheap block type to accept push terminals  (as seen in some Klipsch networks)

[seti]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

 

Nice post. 

 

I am close, but just a wee bit different than you. I really do think there is only one optimal way to do it.  I really believe that.

 

I have met Dave and Jeffrey  face to face, cool guys, and smart.  Did they make the 2 Watt amp for you, or did you build it?  Isn't it amazing , how much difference an amp makes, in a home hi fi system. I bet your system is fun to hear.  Are you able to describe the amp in a bit more detail, tubes used, etc., verbally??  Very cool.

 

Jeff Medwin

 

 

 

I can't hang with you on the one optimal way to do it but thats ok. I can agree to disagree. Dharma.

 

Dave and Jeffrey are the few I trust in the audio world. Their systems are top notch. I don't want to descibe the amp too much as they are in the business but it has a 7f8 driver and can use 2a3 or 45.  I use EML 45 mesh plates. Lots of iron not much else really. Direct coupled two stage. I built it with their guidance and patience.. 2 watts might be a stretch but 107db1w1m speakers in a small room and I don't need much.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Panelhead]

2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

As long as the drivers are within a 1/4 wave envelope at Xover, you are good to go. I believe the LaScalas with K400 meet this criteria. The tweeter, on the other hand, not so much.

Claude,

  The best I can guesstimate the K55 diaphragm is 20 inches behind the K77 diaphragm. The vertical height difference is close to 4 1/2”. If my 10th grade geometry does not fail me, the top hat needs to be angled up at 77.3 degrees. This will time align them. 

  Maybe sitting another driver on top of the top hat is a better option. 

[Dave A]

21 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

My favorite way of doing this is to use good amps, good wiring, a good source, and simply adjust the time-alignment positioning  by ear.  Typically one can perceive 1/16th of an inch.

 

2 hours ago, Deang said:

 

You’re killing me, lol. 

Jeff has an earcrometer. Don't you wish you had one too?

 

7 hours ago, Dave A said:

Hmmm, my guess is it would be a cute challenge at anyone's place. Say that is a new one and I don't remember you addressing source before.  What exactly do you mean and how does one get it? I stopped by the local golf course the other day and I am trying to find matched sets of numbers and identical makes. Now I know you said on capacitors that uf values did not matter as much as matching to a specific manufacturer so does this hold true for golf balls too? Should I be looking for numbers + manufacturer, just numbers alone or just manufacturers alone?

  ATTENTION JEFF,   you know I am a bit saddened that you did not answer my golf ball question, JEFF, and I was hoping you would. I LIKE to get my information from the source and you, JEFF, are the only voice of authority here on these matters. PLEASE before I go looking for golf balls tell me what to do so I don't waste my time.