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Are Your Capacitors Installed Backwards ??


Kreg

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1/3443 of a 60 kHz radio wavelength would be 57.1345 inches.  1/3444 is 57.1179 inches.  Don't rightly know where 57.125 comes from unless it's rounded to the nearest 1/8".

 

For 40 kHz we're looking at 1/5165 wavelength equal 57.1290 inches.  Interesting.  Maybe every electrical wavelength is nearly divisible by 57.125".

 

Let's see...  the speed of light is 11802852677.2 inches per second.  Spreadsheet time.

 

Yes, factors can be found very nearly throughout the range of audio frequencies that very nearly approximate 57.125" as per the attached PDF.

 

But I must say that substituting 60" for 57.125" works much better (shorter spread in the final column) in the spreadsheet.   I therefore recommend a trio of mil-spec wire combined to the equivalent of 8 wire gauge, not braided or heat-shrinked together, but unevenly spread apart, exactly multiples or factors of 60" center-of-eye to center-of-eye.  Should really make a good system sound 5 to 10 % better.

wire-length-sheet.pdf

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23 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

 

Boys, 

 

Honestly,  I don't care about your Formula at all.  What if your theory does not apply to RWF's Lab work, which I suspect is the case?

 

Its called "barking up the wrong tree". You are just guessing without REALLY knowing whats going on . 

 

I don't have to always know why, just SHOW me what works !!  The University's Lab animals, all returned to health, normalcy,  when RWF was done !!

 

Jeff Medwin

 

 

Don't worry Jeffry, I was just answering karlson3's  question and was showing him how I derived the number. It had nothing to do with you.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Boys, 

 

Honestly,  I don't care about your Formula at all.  What if your theory does not apply to RWF's Lab work, which I suspect is the case?

 

Its called "barking up the wrong tree". You are just guessing without REALLY knowing whats going on . 

 

I don't have to always know why, just SHOW me what works !!  The University's Lab animals, all returned to health, normalcy,  when RWF was done !!

 

Jeff Medwin

 

Jeff, I've given up trying to convince you of anything.  When someone states they disregard facts, favoring instead utter impossibilities, it becomes rather like trying to hand-feed a wild animal.  No matter the good intent it's just futile.

 

My post just above was entirely in jest.  Information in a wire doesn't travel at the speed which light does in a vacuum and there are just too many approximations to be made to be able to concretely arrive at any solution which would be generally applicable to arriving at an ideal lead length based upon that.  I'm not saying your friend and mentor wasn't able to optimize that particular system, but I am saying that that solution isn't going to have the same effect on any other system which doesn't exactly match it in every respect.

 

It would be the same as saying "I turned the pot to 9:00 to load match my CB antenna (using a 2 terrahertz oscilloscope) so that means 9:00 is the best position for every such pot."  What's more, well forget it.  It's already been said many times by many people and you just don't care.

 

RWF's lab work doesn't apply to your setup either.

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7 hours ago, glens said:

  On a side note I remember in the later '70s hearing a story about someone using that JBL tweeter that had a vertical slot with a clear plastic phase plug that came to a ridge down the middle being used for rat control at 40 kHz. 

 

That would be a 2405... no longer in production. Only went up to about 22khz, though. Beyma has a similar one, but much less expensive, a CP-21/F.

 

The jbl was a nice tweeter.

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since inductors are used generally in crossovers to induce a rolloff, do the Litz variety produce any substantial measurable differences in the audio band vs equivalent DCR solid gauge wire?   Are perfect-lay solid wire inductors preferable to scramble wound? (assume more compact and less DCR for a given inductance)  Jantzen air core are nice. (Partsexpress Dayton coils may be ok - assuming pure copper and good enamel insulation).

 

My observations with audio and not necessarily "high end" is that its kinda like seasoning a soup - some components for whatever reason add up to a more pleasing result than others for a given loudspeaker and given amp.  (seasoning elements may be capacitors - DAC type - my Ross Martin DAC sounds different with Heresy and SE-EL34 than my Emotiva and different than one which uses little Hammond transformers for coupling and no active buffer) - if one has a pile of audio toys, then its mix and match for best overall flavor for that observer.  The experience may not be the same for another person's "ears".)

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1 minute ago, karlson3 said:

wow - guess that's the way the formula works - I only looked at 20Khz and 40KHz.  I assume in real world speaker work and frequencies, that Litz inductors make little difference over solid wire (?)

As far as skin effect goes, yes. As for Q, Litz rules. 

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I'm trying to envision why a low pass - or highpass inductor element in a typical loudspeaker's crossover (lets say K-horn) would benefit from the inductor with higher quality factor (in the upper portion of the audible spectrum)  A good summation and frequency response would seem to be of more importance.  What's the dB difference and response difference from using the Litz inductor vs say a 16-20 awg solid wire inductor in a tweeter 2nd or 3rd order (electrical) highpass?  What would an impedance sweep of the two type with same spec L look like from 5KHz to 20KHz?

 

A long time ago Nelson Pass conducted some wire tests - I've not read that report in any depth but skimming,  do notice that he had good words for Fulton's cable. (but also the Monster product - which I really disliked for it's clear insulator turning copper green - yuck)

 

https://www.passlabs.com/press/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

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55 minutes ago, karlson3 said:

I've not read that report in any depth but skimming,  do notice that he had good words for Fulton's cable.

 

There's not much depth to be had in the report, actually.  Definitely fetch the PDF version linked on the page to get the full monty.  The Fulton cable evaluated (as typical of them all) was 10' in length, so was likely robbed of its special magic. 

 

It was obvious he was non-plussed in general.  In the conclusion he states:

 

"Who am I to dispute the feelings of audiophiles who, evaluating any cable in the context of program source, amplifier, speaker, and listening room, decide they can hear the difference?"

 

Evidently he'd wasted too much time trying in the past so merely gave up?  I know that's about where I'm at...

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re: speaker wire -there's always Roger Russell's views 😉

CCA stranded wire seems to sound ok but crumbles with any bending and is garbage.    A CCA ribbon voice coil seems cool.  The Fulton Gold "may have been dispensed in two 57.125" increments. (pretty close) 😃

 

I am curious as to the why of Litz inductors in tweeter hi-pass.  

 

I've got an old A-B switch made by a friend but lost its power supply - wonder what voltage it takes to trip a small car relay?

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38 minutes ago, karlson3 said:

re: speaker wire -there's always Roger Russell's views 😉

CCA stranded wire seems to sound ok but crumbles with any bending and is garbage.    A CCA ribbon voice coil seems cool.  I am curious as to the why of Litz inductors in tweeter hi-pass.

 

 I have found the copper clad aluminum (CCA) to need two  awg's heavier to have the same current capability of pure copper. Yea I agree it is junk.

 

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The document says (emphasis mine):

 

"I tested five different types of twin lead cables: 18 and 24 gauge "zip" cord and three specialty cables, "Monster" Lucas cable, and Fulton wire (gold). I bought two samples of each of 18 and 24 gauge wire off reels at a local Radio Shack and a hardware store. All the cables tested were 10 feet in length."

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a few years back I took some of those awful Goldwood brand piezo, M048N Kemo ultrasonic generator module (run from a "wall wart") and made a little thing in hopes to repel dogs.  It had a pretty good amount of drive, dogs ignored it, cats didn't seem to despair, but a young UPS guy heard it from 100 feet away.  My old age hearing brickwalls at ~13KHz  so did not hear it (nor sense it) when the frequency dial was up.  Of course the piezo would poop out at some point.  Kemo of Germany sells a couple of piezo speakers - maybe one model would make a decent "helper tweeter".  BTW - Diyaudio member "Sonce" had a simple filter scheme for the old KSN1005  lemon squeezer piezo horn that works pretty well. (it doesn't work with KSN1016). For KSN1016  I've used a step-up transformer scheme as DJK recommended, along with an 8R/100uH "Zoebel" which gave a reasonably flat 5K-20+ KHz response at 103dB sensitivity and 1/4 of 1% THD from just one KSN1016 and 1uF cap as the highpass to the "primary" (8 ohm tap) of the 25v matching transformer with piezo on the 5 watt tap.  I've got 22 of those real 1016 things so should build an array.  (were 5 used in the Klipsch tweeter? - how much curve did that little array have ?)

 

Here's a graph I made showing 10 Goldwood 1005 knockoffs - - I had to separate them into pairs to get something semi - usable

 

1WVE21o.gif

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23 hours ago, glens said:

It was obvious he was non-plussed in general.  In the conclusion he states:

 

"Who am I to dispute the feelings of audiophiles who, evaluating any cable in the context of program source, amplifier, speaker, and listening room, decide they can hear the difference?"

 

Evidently he'd wasted too much time trying in the past so merely gave up?  I know that's about where I'm at...

 

It's this simple:  everybody agrees that thin cable (lamp cord, zip cord, 16-18 AWG wire) will suffice to make your speakers work adequately, and seems to have been good enough for the audio pioneers and experts in the past.  Thin cable is still good enough for some of them today.  This also applies to power cords.

 

However, some people believe that bigger and/or better shielded cables and cords can make your system sound better.

 

That's it.  Nothing more than that.

 

For some reason, the thin-cable fans get upset with anyone who espouses this concept, and claim that any possible differences either don't show up in measurements, or are so minuscule as to be inaudible.  Therefore, the thick-cable fans must be deluded, experiencing confirmation bias due to needlessly spending too much money, not too bright, disbelievers in science, thick-headed, victims of their own imagination, and so on.

 

Therefore, the thin-cable fans, who Know The Actual Scientific Truth, feel that the misguided thick-cable fans must be disabused of their fantasies and corrected, before they ruin the audio hobby for everyone.

 

You may have noticed that the thick-cable fans don't call the thin-cable fans deaf, or clueless, or anything like that.  In most cases, it's just, "This works for me.  It may or may not work for you.  If you don't like thick cables, nobody will insist that you buy any, or mock you for being satisfied with thin cables.  Do whatever makes you happy.  That's what I do."

 

Can we all just get along?  There's no need to convince anyone of anything, other than that electrical safety is important, so be sure everything is connected safely and securely.

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35 minutes ago, Islander said:

You may have noticed that the thick-cable fans don't call the thin-cable fans deaf, or clueless, or anything like that.  In most cases, it's just, "This works for me.  It may or may not work for you.  If you don't like thick cables, nobody will insist that you buy any, or mock you for being satisfied with thin cables.  Do whatever makes you happy.  That's what I do."

 I have 2 main issues concerning cables - false advertising by a lot of the sellers, along with exorbitant pricing. Any audible differences are accounted for by the measured inductance, capacitance, and resistance of the cable, and are generally small. Manufacturers that claim their cables cause dramatic improvements in sound quality are blowing smoke in an effort to promote sales, and overcharging their customers for what amounts to hookup wire. $1500 worth of room treatments will yield much greater sonic improvement  than $75 worth of wire that sells for $1500.

 

There are decent cables available from companies that don't lie about their products, and don't charge a fortune for them. Blue Jeans Cables, Mogami cables, and Belden wire and cable are examples of respected companies that make quality products that won't break the bank, especially if you DIY. As far as audiophiles who spend a lot of money on expensive cables and completely worthless tweaks while ignoring simple acoustic treatments, I just smile and shake my head. 

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