Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
Kreg

Orientation of capacitors outer foil in a klipsch type B crossover.

Recommended Posts

21 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Just label me ignorant and apathetic. I didn't know and I didn't care. Although I do admire your tenacity of opinion in this matter.

 

 

Sir,

 

Look up specs on a Fulton ( FMI ) Premiere, P-10 to P-13 models.  The published spec was 12 hZ- 80 khZ, but RWF used to regularly tell me, " this one measures out to 110 kHz."

 

He used about 7 AWG to the sub woofers in the enclosure, two 12s, slot loaded, in the early 1980s.

 

I never liked listening to the uglier high powered amps such complicated speakers needed, so I went to High Efficiency Professional Drivers, horn loaded, simple two ways,  AND AMPS I BUILD MYSELF, UNDER 2 WATTS.  More than enough power , IF you have EVERYTHING wired well, the entire audio chain.  Thats were its at !!   Its far better sounding, than ANY other way I have heard in the audio arts.

 

FACT If you need to use an amp over 2 Watts,  with a high efficiency speaker, its compromised VS a small amp,  and you don't have the system wired as best as it should be wired, and could be set up !!!  

 

Jeff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Just label me ignorant and apathetic. I didn't know and I didn't care. Although I do admire your tenacity of opinion in this matter.

 

I care !!   All my life, I wanted to have a realistic-sounding home hi fidelity system.

 

Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, glens said:

I think I can "see" where Jeff is coming from (not that I concur entirely).  You can be listening at a level of milliamps average level but a sudden transient would, for the instant, increase the level at a rate that, were it sustained, be amps, yet no so long as to raise the overall average appreciably.  And if there weren't a sufficient reservoir of electrons under pressure in the leads (like fuel in the line feeding the Corvette engine), the pressure might fall too far before the transient can be properly delivered, and the speaker would run lean on the peaks.

 

Does that about sum it up, Jeff?

Go read my math, which still refutes the claim, even with my +10 db "stupid loud" exaggeration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arguing about wire is akin to arguing about religion. It’s pointless.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

I care !!   All my life, I wanted to have a realistic-sounding home hi fidelity system.

 

Jeff

I have that all my life, ever since I got into big horns at 19. I was just apathetic about having 110 Khz tweeters when my hearing has gone from 17 Khz. down to 12 Khz. recently. The SST was a fine aircraft for intercontinental travel, but it made a poor commuter vehicle. Waste of time and money. I too like low power amplifiers, like the First Watt varieties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DizRotus said:

Arguing about wire is akin to arguing about religion. It’s pointless.  

I agree, which is why I said I didn't care after doing the math.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Look up specs on a Fulton ( FMI ) Premiere, P-10 to P-13 models.  The published spec was 12 hZ- 80 khZ, but RWF used to regularly tell me, " this one measures out to 110 kHz."

 

He used about 7 AWG to the sub woofers in the enclosure, two 12s, slot loaded, in the early 1980s.

Fulton is out of business for a reason. Besides Hoffman's Law dictates that you can't operate any Direct Radiator Speaker with only 2 Watts to realistic levels.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree with many of Medwin’s opinions, but I will vigorously defend his right to be wrong.  He’s free to worship any wire gauge he deems better.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Go read my math, which still refutes the claim, even with my +10 db "stupid loud" exaggeration.

 

 

I do not much care about math proof, the proof of the pudding is IN the eating.

 

Jeff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Fulton is out of business for a reason. Besides Hoffman's Law dictates that you can't operate any Direct Radiator Speaker with only 2 Watts to realistic levels.

 

 

Yes, he died, 1988, and it was a small niche company, not for the masses. 

 

Hoffmans Law, LMAO, I have a 0.25 Watt triode amp at home now,  does pretty good.   But I do believe two Watts is needed, but the FIRST WATT is most important of all..  Done best with triode tubes, and zero Negative Feedback, even Nelson would tell you that, privately of course.

 

Jeff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I have that all my life, ever since I got into big horns at 19. I was just apathetic about having 110 Khz tweeters when my hearing has gone from 17 Khz. down to 12 Khz. recently. The SST was a fine aircraft for intercontinental travel, but it made a poor commuter vehicle. Waste of time and money. I too like low power amplifiers, like the First Watt varieties.

 

Wrong reasoning sir.  Resultants filter down, from above where we hear, into the midrange, where we still hear acutely.   Jeff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:
50 minutes ago, glens said:

I think I can "see" where Jeff is coming from (not that I concur entirely).  You can be listening at a level of milliamps average level but a sudden transient would, for the instant, increase the level at a rate that, were it sustained, be amps, yet no so long as to raise the overall average appreciably.  And if there weren't a sufficient reservoir of electrons under pressure in the leads (like fuel in the line feeding the Corvette engine), the pressure might fall too far before the transient can be properly delivered, and the speaker would run lean on the peaks.

 

Does that about sum it up, Jeff?

Go read my math, which still refutes the claim, even with my +10 db "stupid loud" exaggeration.

 

Oh, I don't need to re-read your math.  I concur with both you and it.  My point was merely that I think I've identified the flaw in the other logic.

 

On another note, I did a search for "Fulton Speakers".  I'm not suggesting anything like having familiarity with even the vast minority of speaker manufacturers, but this thread introduced me to Fulton for the first time.

 

At any rate, Stereophile has an interesting 3 pages of 4 regarding some Fulton product.  The third page is the most fun, but they're short so don't just skip to it.  https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/0973fulton/index.html

 

Another result of the search was an ended sale at US Audio Mart.  The link for stereophile will likely be good for some time to come, but I fetched a few images off the Audio Mart page so they will be available from this server for this thread.  The speaker "system" is, I believe, mentioned in the stereophile material.

 

In the image of the crossover, I can't help but think the coils look an awful lot like items that could be purchased at AutoZone...

 

2068928-fulton-premier-modular-speaker-fmi.jpg

2068926-fulton-premier-modular-speaker-fmi.jpg

2068924-fulton-premier-modular-speaker-fmi.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

 

Wrong reasoning sir.  Resultants filter down, from above where we hear, into the midrange, where we still hear acutely.   Jeff 

I looked up your Voice of the Theater system. Had those when I was 19 years old. Obsolete by any standard. This is a Klipsch forum and you are sounding more and more like a troll, sorry to say. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, glens said:

In the image of the crossover, I can't help but think the coils look an awful lot like items that could be purchased at AutoZone...

I guess you can't judge a book by it's cover. But then again, Klipsch AA network chokes don't look that pretty either, they just work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I guess you can't judge a book by it's cover. But then again, Klipsch AA network chokes don't look that pretty either, they just work.

 

Through the years I've installed (replaced) many starter relays that look strikingly similar to those units!  That was my point.  Certainly if they have the required values they should work for the purpose at hand, even if that's what they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

imo, if one ignore's Jeff's use of: multiple bypassed caps in power supply and crossover,  composite heavy wiring to speakers, in the amp, in short runs in the crossover (-which seems to throw a lot of folks) and 2 watts is sufficient for most of their listening pleasure, then his amplifier approach (not all laid out here) is solid for fully horn loaded systems.  If I understand properly, that would be using single ended triode or triode connected output tube in class A with careful selection of operating point; filter chokes in the power supply with emphasis on low dcr (and not meeting Lcritical needed for choke input standards), no loop feedback, only one gain stage - and ideally if possible, connect that directly to the grid of the output tube to avoid any capacitor (this of course requires a higher B+ and the output tube's cathode will be well elevated above ground plus its biasing R bypassed with a cap).  That is about as simple of a tube amp that is practical and I'd expect one to sound better* within that limited power than some other approaches.  (* highly subjective !)   Of course paralleled triode or 300B would deliver more power.  His 2W amp is using a triode connected pentode and inexpensive output transformers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, glens said:

The third page is the most fun

Seems Mr Fulton had a touch of ADHD.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I looked up your Voice of the Theater system. Had those when I was 19 years old. Obsolete by any standard. This is a Klipsch forum and you are sounding more and more like a troll, sorry to say. 

 

 

Why call people who disagree with you names??  Why revert to that ??

 

Jeff 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...