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Ray_pierrewit

Seeking advice about 3 channel LaScala setup.

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I may soon acquire another pair of LaScalas in order to try the 3 channel setup as Klipsch and others have suggested was the ideal setup. I'm currently driving my pair with a Scott 299B, which has the center channel output. I've also got a small Trends TA-10 amp which can be made into a mono amp. Would this work well in this context? What are others using as center channel amplifiers? Is the volume control of the center channel independent from the main integrated, meaning when I adjust the volume will I need to fiddle with two knobs? Pretty nubey stuff... I know! Thanks for any help!

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12 minutes ago, Ceptorman said:

@Youthman can send you in the right direction.

I almost made the same mistake as I have a 5 Lascala setup and it is fantastic ! 

But I think he is referring to a 3 channel Music only setup like PWK did at one point with a center to fill in.

I'm pretty sure @ClaudeJ1 did this early on and could help him with this.

 

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Yes you will need a separate amp for the center channel.  I believe the 299b doesn't have the ability to adjust the volume within the integrated.   Your trends should work with this, however you will have to adjust the volume on the Trends when turning up the volume on the Scott.  Nosvalves or Tubefanatic may be able to explain better,  I would ask them if there is a mod for this.  My @ isn't working or I would tag them for you.

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Is this for music or movies?  If movies, absolutely.  Love my LaScala Trio.

 

I prefer not to have a center playing for 2ch

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If the Scott has pre out for L+R you could use a small 4 channel mixer to adjust relative level and L & R mix to center. 

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2 hours ago, Gnote said:

I almost made the same mistake as I have a 5 Lascala setup and it is fantastic ! 

But I think he is referring to a 3 channel Music only setup like PWK did at one point with a center to fill in.

I'm pretty sure @ClaudeJ1 did this early on and could help him with this.

 

Had the same 2 PH 3 setup as PWK did for over 30 years. 2 Khorns and a LaScala in the center. I built his "mini box" which created the mono center. If you pre amp has a center out, you are all set. All you need is a mono amp or half of a stereo one (PWK used 1/2 of a Crown D60).

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5 hours ago, Ray_pierrewit said:

I may soon acquire another pair of LaScalas in order to try the 3 channel setup as Klipsch and others have suggested was the ideal setup. I'm currently driving my pair with a Scott 299B, which has the center channel output. I've also got a small Trends TA-10 amp which can be made into a mono amp. Would this work well in this context? What are others using as center channel amplifiers? Is the volume control of the center channel independent from the main integrated, meaning when I adjust the volume will I need to fiddle with two knobs? Pretty nubey stuff... I know! Thanks for any help!

The mono center is independent. I used "Mediterranean Sundance" off an Al DiMeola Album to set the  guitars inwards, by ear,  about 1/4 of the way, which was then good for everything else. Center ends up 3-6 db down from the flanks that way. Good luck.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elegant_Gypsy

 

 

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11 hours ago, Youthman said:

Is this for music or movies?  If movies, absolutely.  Love my LaScala Trio.

 

I prefer not to have a center playing for 2ch

Interesting... can you please elaborate why you prefer 2ch for music? I'm counting on using it solely for music, as in... there is no chance of it ever being for movies.

 

My motivation for trying the three channels for music stems from a desire to apply what PWK described as the best possible setup rather than any sort of dissatisfaction with my current system.

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23 minutes ago, Ray_pierrewit said:

Interesting... can you please elaborate why you prefer 2ch for music? I'm counting on using it solely for music, as in... there is no chance of it ever being for movies.

 

My motivation for trying the three channels for music stems from a desire to apply what PWK described as the best possible setup rather than any sort of dissatisfaction with my current system.

 

I have three channels across the front (2 Klipschorns and one modified Belle Klipsch) for both music and movies.  My center channel (the Belle) is equal in volume to each of the sides, unlike PWK's system, which had the center somewhat lower in SPL than the sides. 

Sometimes, for music, I prefer just the 2 outermost channels, with the phantom center floating center stage.  Other times, with other recordings, I prefer all three channels running, which can (with extreme good luck) provide up to 9 loci across the front.   Someone said, "It depends on the microphone pattern."   Naturally, I don't know what mic pattern was used in recording a given disk.

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2 channel being true stereo as I know ot is a 2 speaker configuration. That said, why not a center, as long as Digital Processing is not occurring, or is. Talking the purist 2 channel here which I equate with vinyl or, other recordings in stereo reproduction. Once again a prefer involved at some point in listening.

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39 minutes ago, billybob said:

2 channel being true stereo as I know ot is a 2 speaker configuration

😳🤓:rolleyes:

"Stereo" comes from the Greek "stereos," meaning "solid," making "stereophonic," "solid sound."   IMO, most home stereo systems were limited to 2 channels because of the limitations of the vinyl disk, and later, the CD.

 

The first time we greybeards heard of stereo, it was a 7 channel stereo system in 1952, installed in big cities for This is Cinarama.  Our parents and grandparents had heard many channel stereo in Disney's Fantasia 12 years earlier, but it was not advertised as stereo, but went by the name "Fantasound."

 

When CinemaScope came out the year after Cinerama, for showings of The Robe, it was no secret it was in 4 channel stereo.  The imitation silk banner hanging from the marquee, saying "4 channel stereophonic sound" was a dead giveaway.

 

70mm Todd-AO, Technirama 70, Camera 65,  Super Panavision 70, Ultra Panavision 70, Dimension 150, and most of the rest had

6 channel stereo.   In theaters willing to install the extra channels, D150 had 8 channel stereo.

 

When Walt Disney was interviewed about his upcoming "The Peter Tchaikovsky Story" on TV, in 3 channel stereo (FM, TV,  AM -- no multiplex yet), he was asked something like "Didn't Lawrence Welk already do stereo TV for one show?" Walt said something like, "Yeah, but that was only 2 channel -- binaural -- this 3 channel is what we call true stereo."  That arguable nomenclature may have been due to Martin Mayer's popular book of that year in which he called 2 channel "binaural, the simplest kind of stereo."

 

Cinemiracle was advertised as being in 7 channel stereo.

 

When the stereo Lp was demoed all over the San Francisco Hi Fi fair in 1959, one of my high school friends said, "Yeah, but it's only 2 channel."

:smile:

 

 

 

 

 

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Remember, youthman's setup is home theater. He can put his receiver or preamp (not sure what he is currently using) into 2 channel, but in the end, it's still a home theater rig. There were some preamps in the 70s that could do 3 channel stereo setups. I have a McIntosh c28 preamp that can add a center channel to stereo, but I have never tried it.

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20 hours ago, Youthman said:

I prefer not to have a center playing for 2ch

 

That's why it's called 2-channel!

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Coytee said:

 

That's why it's called 2-channel!

 

 

Yes, I got that. I think he meant he prefers 2ch for music, which, as I mentioned, will be the only application in my system.

 

Thanks @garyrc for the historical accounts of the early uses of stereo. Sure makes me wish that I could have heard some of those great old cinemas!

 

As it is now I've got a fantastic phantom center image, I've also got great sound everywhere in my room (which was important for me as I'm not always sitting in the listening chair), though this hasn't been corroborated with any type of measurements other than my ears and personal preferences.

 

I guess what I'm wondering now is what more/less will adding the third channel bring to my system? There's got to be a reason PWK advocated such a setup. If I understand his reasoning it has to do with widening the sweet spot so that several listeners can enjoy a stereo image. In my other thread about the listening room itself, @Chris Asuggested that the center channel locks the center image in from everywhere in the room with the benefit increased clarity. Seems compelling! 

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15 hours ago, Ray_pierrewit said:

Interesting... can you please elaborate why you prefer 2ch for music? I'm counting on using it solely for music, as in... there is no chance of it ever being for movies.

As dtr20 mentioned, I have my LaScala Trio in my theater which I mostly use for movies.  When listening to music, I prefer 2ch instead of using a "surround sound" which utilizes all 11 of my speakers. 

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On March 1, 2019 at 3:20 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

The mono center is independent. I used "Mediterranean Sundance" off an Al DiMeola Album to set the  guitars inwards, by ear,  about 1/4 of the way, which was then good for everything else. Center ends up 3-6 db down from the flanks that way. Good luck.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elegant_Gypsy

 

 

One of my favorite albums!

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10 hours ago, veloceleste said:

One of my favorite albums!

Yes, and the guitars being hard left and hard right channels allow for a very good adjustment of a center. That's how I did it over 42 years ago when I was still a kid!

 

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I have 2 '60 Khorns and a homebuilt center Belle.  There's an ancient Dyna pre-amp and an AL-700p three channel digi-amp joined by a PWK splitter.  No TV, music only.  the whole thing sounds as good as anything I've heard outside of a high end  demo room.  

 

I really can't hear any difference between LS and Belles myself.  I know some claim they can but I can't.  might be due to my damaged hearing (guns + racecars +  plywood mills) but there it is.

 

It's interesting varying the volume of the belle with the splitter.  It affects both the width and depth of the sound stage.  I'm going to go try the   Di Meola tune linked above.

 

Claude, good to see you.  I remember you from back in the olden days around the turn of the century.  :)  Don't get on here much anymore.

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