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adam2434

XT32 and MultEQ Editor app tweaks for bass response

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Posting similar stuff at AVS, but thought I’d bring this topic to the Klipsch forum for additional input.  This topic is more of a 2-channel music priority for me, but since it involves XT32, thought I'd post it here.

 

Recently picked up a Marantz AV7704 pre/pro (coming from an Outlaw 975) and am using XT32 and the MultEQ Editor app for the first time.

 

So far, I have found that the MultEQ app calibration without further adjustment sounds very thin and bass shy with 2-channel music, unless I boost sub levels (dual subs) about 6-7 dB.  I believe this is due to the flat bass response that is targeted.  This seems to be a common observation/complaint. 

 

I believe that I might prefer a more typical house curve (Harman-like, perhaps) with a rising bass response.  This would be in the context of combined L/R/subs curves.  BTW, I set my L/R to small and 80 Hz crossover after the calibration.  My L/R in this system are Polk LS90 floorstanders.  Subs are dual Outlaw 12" models.

 

So, I’m curious if other folks feel that the bass needs tweaking after calibration and would like to know what you’ve done to tweak.  I don’t have REW capabilities (yet) and realize that this is probably needed to really understand the baseline and impact of adjustments.

 

The MultEQ app curve editor provides the ability to tweak the individual channel curves, but I know that I’m probably shooting in the dark without REW.  I know that some folks have bumped L/R bass frequencies with the curve editor and bumped sub level(s) to achieve a smooth rising bass response (and they confirmed this with REW).

 

Just looking for some experience and insight on this topic.

 

Thanks.

 

For reference, I attached screenshots of the L/R and subs "Before" curves from 2 separate app calibrations.  Assuming these "Before" curves are accurate, looks like the room transition is at around 250-300 Hz.

 

 

cal 2 and 1 subs.JPG

cal 2 and 1 R.JPG

cal 2 and 1 L.JPG

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Audyssey always takes things too far for my ears.  Nothing is that flat in the studio.  It seems it doesn't just compensate for the room, it takes over the whole recording cutting, boosting, filtering and re-writing until it comes up with an EQ'd  track that sounds totally different than what I have been listening to since I was a kid.  It sucks the life out of the content IMO.

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17 minutes ago, Max2 said:

Audyssey always takes things too far for my ears.  Nothing is that flat in the studio.  It seems it doesn't just compensate for the room, it takes over the whole recording cutting, boosting, filtering and re-writing until it comes up with an EQ'd  track that sounds totally different than what I have been listening to since I was a kid.  It sucks the life out of the content IMO.

 

The nice thing about the MultEQ editor app is that one can limit the correction range to Schroeder (say somewhere between 200-300Hz), and leave the mids and highs uncorrected/filtered.

 

If it works as intended, it would flatten the bass peaks and valleys a bit, and leave the rest alone.  I think the issue with this is that a rising bass room curve is often preferred, and Audyssey targets flat bass.  I believe this is why many folks then bump their sub levels several dB to get the rising bass response (kind of brute force and probably not the best way to get the intended room curve), but hopefully "better" bass response because major room-induced peaks and valleys are reduced. 

 

As a newbie to Audyssey and the MultEQ app, that's at least how I think of this at this point.

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It looks like Audyssey is doing a good job on your system. Maybe you can get the desired bass curve by going to your Marantz Set Up menu, selecting Audio, then selecting Tone Control, On, then adjusting the bass and/or treble to suit your listening mood. 

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I was experiencing the same issue when I ran Audyssey XT32. This is stolen from AVS but this is the advice that gave me the best results:

 

Raise the crossover settings to 80Hz. 3. Use of the Subwoofer Level Adjust Setting is NOT recommended as it is actually over boosting your sub. Rather instead using the Speakers - Manual Setup - Test Tones - Subwoofer setting to boost the sub +5db (that is unless the initial Manual Setup setting is -12db, in which case you'll need to lower the gain on the SVS sub to about 9 o'clock (25%) and run Audyssey again). Refer to the Audyssey Setup/FAQ Guide in the Audyssey sticky thread as well as the 2015 Denon AVR Owner's thread (posts 1-8) for more helpful information.

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1 hour ago, Khornukopia said:

It looks like Audyssey is doing a good job on your system. Maybe you can get the desired bass curve by going to your Marantz Set Up menu, selecting Audio, then selecting Tone Control, On, then adjusting the bass and/or treble to suit your listening mood. 

 

Those "After" curves are predicted, not measured from what I understand.  I don't think Audyssey is that good in reality.  😊

 

Adjusting sub levels up is a way to increase the bass below the LPF point - guess it would create a bass shelf in the summed curve.

 

Not sure if Tone Controls are available when Audyssey is enabled - will need to check that out.

 

Thanks.

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56 minutes ago, K5SS said:

I was experiencing the same issue when I ran Audyssey XT32. This is stolen from AVS but this is the advice that gave me the best results:

 

Raise the crossover settings to 80Hz. 3. Use of the Subwoofer Level Adjust Setting is NOT recommended as it is actually over boosting your sub. Rather instead using the Speakers - Manual Setup - Test Tones - Subwoofer setting to boost the sub +5db (that is unless the initial Manual Setup setting is -12db, in which case you'll need to lower the gain on the SVS sub to about 9 o'clock (25%) and run Audyssey again). Refer to the Audyssey Setup/FAQ Guide in the Audyssey sticky thread as well as the 2015 Denon AVR Owner's thread (posts 1-8) for more helpful information.

 

 

Yep, what you posted is basically what I discovered on my own, except that I've been playing with +6-7 dB sub(s) boost, and I am doing it in the source-specific "Options-Channel Levels" menu, rather than globally in the test tone settings.  I already discovered that the SLA setting on the AV7704 is not the best to use, because it does not adjust from the calibrated level as a starting point.

 

Can you point me to that AVS thread?  I'd like to determine if there is more background on the recommended 5 dB sub boost.

 

Thanks.

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I would love to point you to the thread but I haven’t been able to locate it for quite some time now. 

 

The only reason I was able to share that info because I found it so helpful, I copied it to my notes section on my phone, in case I ever needed to reference it again. I also wanted to be able to share it easily, if I thought it would help someone here. 

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10 hours ago, K5SS said:

I would love to point you to the thread but I haven’t been able to locate it for quite some time now. 

 

The only reason I was able to share that info because I found it so helpful, I copied it to my notes section on my phone, in case I ever needed to reference it again. I also wanted to be able to share it easily, if I thought it would help someone here. 

 

OK, thanks anyway for posting that.

 

I'll do more research in this area and report back if I learn something significant.

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23 hours ago, adam2434 said:

Not sure if Tone Controls are available when Audyssey is enabled - will need to check that out.

 

Most AVR's with Audyssey (or one of the other room corrections systems) have bass and treble control that is independent. Some equipment requires a few steps into the Set Up menu to find the tone control, separate from the Audyssey graphic equalizer.

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9 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

 

Most AVR's with Audyssey (or one of the other room corrections systems) have bass and treble control that is independent. Some equipment requires a few steps into the Set Up menu to find the tone control, separate from the Audyssey graphic equalizer.

 

Yep, you are right.  Tone controls are still available with Audyssey on the Marantz AV7704.  I will research into and experiment with bass tone control increase vs. sub level increase.

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