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donmark

Heresy troubleshooting

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Posted (edited)

Hi everyone!

 

First post from a longtime lurker :)

I have been following this forum for quite some time, especially the Super Heresy treads.

 

Until this sunday I have been listening to a pair of RP-160, but a good deal on a Heresy popped up near me and I had to take the chance on them.

Living in Denmark Klipsch are a rare and expensive bread.

 

The speakers sounded nice when demoing them at sellers house, but I didn’t get the chance to look inside the cabs before getting them home.

Actually they did sound super fun. Much more snap and “live” feel than the rp-160.

 

Inside it looks all original, k77 tweets, k55 mid push terminal,  k22 woofer and the relatively rare Type D crossover.

 

Unfortunately, after getting home the left channel started making distortion noises and and clicking sounds. The right one did to actually, but much lower, and this is where I need advice on troubleshooting the issue.

 

I ran some sound sweeps and am pretty sure the offending sound comes out of the K55.

this is what I have done so far:

1. Made sure the issue is not on the amp. When swapping the channels the issue stays on the left speaker. The amp is a little quad 306 :)

cracking little guy that amp by the way.

2. Made sure the k55 are working. Both measure 9.6 on my multimeter. (More or less)

3. Swapped out the k55 with a pair of GPA 909. This I did to figure out if the diaphragms in the K55 was off, but the skratching distortion was also present with the GPA. And the issues was still more prominent on the left channel.

4.Double checked and tied connections 

 

I am suspecting the issue lies in the crossover then. 

The caps are original brown Type D ones after all. This makes them 40 plus years old? 

I have some 2mF Solen caps on the way.

 

What is left:

  1. Ground loop?
  2. Autoformers?
  3. Wires?
  4. Anything else?

 

Down the road I might go the Super Heresy path, but first I want to iron out the problems and enjoy the originals.

 

What now o wise ones...?

 

 

Edited by donmark

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Welcome to the forum.  Have you loosened and re tightened all the screws on the crossover yet?

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Thanks for the suggestion CEC.

did double check the screws, but didn’t actually unscrew them first. Will try.

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It sound like the wires intended for the woofer got accidently swapped for the wire intended for the mid (squawker). 

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Sounds like the source is causing it.....are you using separates     source      pre-amp     .amp???  If they sounded fine at sellers house only thing that changed was the source material right ?

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@kink56The woofer wires are going to the k22. Pretty sure about that.

 

@ricktate good point. The source is the same as the sellers house. 

I brought an iphone and ran it straight to the amp. This way I knew the music, and controlled the volume with spotify. Not ideal but it works.

but I did also test at home with a yamaha receiver and apple tv as source. Got the same issue.

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48 minutes ago, ricktate said:

Sounds like the source is causing it....

He said he swapped wires and the problem stayed with the speaker.  One good, one bad.

 

It should be easy to figure out if he has one good speaker.  He can swap components and see what happens with the issue.  I really think that loosening and tightening all the screws on the crossover should be the first step.  It's fixed more than one speaker and seems to occur more often than not after transportation.

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Very thorough (absent connection breaking/re-making) and logical examination.

 

Both mids, one more than other show symptoms.  40-year-old equipment transported.  If it's a crossover component(s), yet to be determined, it's unlikely that between caps and coils it's the coils.  

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Thanks for the input guys,

 

tonight I'll swap the crossovers and see if the noise follows the left crossover to the right speaker.

I'll also retie the screws in the process.

 

a couple of pics from the inside.

img1.jpg

img2.jpg

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Welcome to the forums! GPA 909s... nice!

 

Those look like rebuilt crossovers. Can you redo the solder connections on the crossover? First, Carl's suggestion to loosen and retighten the screws.

 

Bruce

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Those capacitors look like crappy ones and the coils = '''transformers''' never go bad.   Heres the schematic for it. Notice the polarity on tweet and squawker.

TypeE.jpg

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4 hours ago, ricktate said:

Heres the schematic for it.

 

that's the wrong one... he said it has a Type "D". It's the same, but no reason so muddy the water.

 

It's here:

 

Heresy_Type_D.jpg

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Posted (edited)

allright..

 

did swap the crossovers and retied all the screws.

two different things happend:

1. the ticking distortion became less

2. the problem seemed to have followed the crossover to the rigth speaker.

 

now, I am beginning to supect that the ticking scratching sounds is comming from my digital sources and the Heresy are simply to sensitive and are picking it up.

But on the other hand I am looking at those sad brown capacitor lumps and they sure don’t help matters. I am just glad some fresh ones are in the mail...no sense in overthinking  it now till I have at least a recapped crossover.

 

By the way type D and Type E, aren’t they the same just with the positive and negative inverted at the k55?

 

The plan is to take all the guts out and sand the cabs. that I can do. The previous owner did paint them black, but are originally walnut veener. 

 

 

Edited by donmark

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16 minutes ago, donmark said:

I am beginning to supect that the ticking scratching sounds is comming from my digital sources and the Heresy are simply to sensitive and are picking it up.

That is entirely possible.

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39 minutes ago, donmark said:

 

By the way type D and Type E, aren’t they the same just with the positive and negative inverted at the k55?

Looks like it would depend on what the numbered terminals in the "D" were labeled. I mean which is + and which is -

 

42 minutes ago, donmark said:

now, I am beginning to supect that the ticking scratching sounds is comming from my digital sources

Why did you not hear it while demo'ing? Noiser ambient environment? Or just excited about possibly scoring Heresy's:)

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You're Donmark from Denmark? I like it:)

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, babadono said:

Looks like it would depend on what the numbered terminals in the "D" were labeled. I mean which is + and which is -

 

Why did you not hear it while demo'ing? Noiser ambient environment? Or just excited about possibly scoring Heresy's:)

nah didn't pop up at sellers house, but I wasn't playing to lound either.

not that I am cranking the volume up normally.

Regardless I have a pretty cool pair of Heresy now. will be a cool project to get them up an running again

Edited by donmark

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With my first H1s, one of them had a pop/cut out that turned out to be the connection at the back of the speaker terminal. I’m sure you checked this, but worth mentioning. Good luck with the issue, also with bringing back the Walnut finish. Be super careful, especially if sanding. I had to remove three coats of paint from mine. Oh, do NOT do this in your kitchen, even if your wife is out of town for the weekend. You will not get it completely finished and cleaned up before she gets back. Trust me

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Yeah, but you can always use that event as a benchmark.  So long as you never do anything that bad again, you're golden, whatever it may be "this" time!

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Donmark, welcome to the forum. While waiting for the caps to arrive I’d clean the inside of the cabinets and seal all seams. Put some sound deadening material on the walls. Mark the suspect driver with some tape and inspect it relative to the ok driver especially the terminals to see if they are loose, perhaps already done when you checked with multi meter. Clean them up and if necessary check the diaphragms see Bob Crites web site. If it’s not the caps, terminals or diaphragm ... gremlins.  If you do the Super Heresy you’ll like those but you reuse the K55 so need to get this problem figured out first. Good luck

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