MeloManiac Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 The Klipsch crowd loves things big, large and powerful. Or is this an unjust generalisation? Anyhow, some Klispch speakers are really 'efficient' and don't need a lot of watts to generate a lot of decibels. So here is a little amp I came across that really beats them all in power-reversed: the The MicroZOTL MZ3 is a one-watt Speaker amp. The product page: https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/microzotl-mz3 Review: https://theaudiobeatnik.com/reviewing-the-microzotl-mz3-integrated-amp-from-linear-tube-audio/ At $3,700 this must be the most expensive watt on the planet. However, it has amazing specs, and I'm really curious about your opinion on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 too much pay for about $300 in raw materials. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Craig, that's really a gross over-simplification. Thinking and design are far more advanced than conventional valve amps. Surely you know that!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I have a single-ended OTL that runs really warm (actually HOT), that's good for a whopping 1.5 watts/channel into 8 ohms. With speakers that have an efficiently of 104 and 106 dBs/watt, it is probably one of the top three best-sounding amps I have. Even with Heresies it was really amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Reading the description you are paying for cosmetics and a lot of hype. Looking at the specs they claim crosstalk of 46db. That’s absolutely awful when compared with the 70-90db crosstalk figures of most CD players. For half of what this amp costs you can buy two Decware Zen Triodes which I believe would slaughter this in terms of performance. And, I agree with Craig ( the Red Sea just went permanently dry!) that the electronic parts cost is not very high. Maynard 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3700 bucks? Lots of alternatives at that price point. I do love Khozomo resistor attenuators though. Any photos of the guts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Schu said: Any photos of the guts? Here is one: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/microzotl-3-by-linear-tube-audio-true-high-end-audio.895908/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Initial impression? A shockingly poor value proposition. Erik, any more specific details about this amp's "thinking and design" you care to share? The product page was long on non-technical postmodernism, short on specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 It has a remote... It uses a digital interface for controls, volume settings and inputs ae save when you power off. (Gee, my pre does that... the switches are in the same position they were when I turned it off) The PS has 12VDC output... 😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Come on, guys. This is an American made product... I also checked the website of Fern & Roby, the designers behind this amp. You'll gonna love this, they also design speakers. Their Ravens are actually similar to the Heresy in design. The quadrupled the price, of course... https://www.fernandroby.com/products/details/the-ravens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 For $8,500 a pair, I'm going to need/want something with a little more "girth" to it than a single driver with a whizzer cone. That or they're going to have to do a reach around and give me a little kiss once in awhile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 (edited) Ski Bum, Sure, here's a start: "...shockingly poor value proposition." reflects the need for much further education and investigation into the work of David Berning. If one doesn't have much knowledge of David Berning, whose work I've followed for many years, it would be a great benefit to such a person's knowledge of audio design to do some homework. Ignorance is NOT always a term of derision; it can also be a term used to describe the state of 'innocent not-knowing' (my definition). I would say many who frequent this site are far more used to vacuum tube amps with chassis that sport heavy black (or other color of choice -- which in truth is purely cosmetic -- nothing wrong with that) output and power transformers, and so forth, all of which are often, at least from what I've seen, equated with 'better performance.' That may be true in some cases, but even the name of the component in question, 'MicroZOTL' has something to do with it's manner of operation. Again, if on the surface one doesn't see said big transformers (of which I have used a great many myself), one may be inclined, if one didn't know better, to conclude that such an amp is 'wanting' and sorely over-priced. Discussion here for the past twenty or so years have often evangelized the benefits of bigger transformers and very costly capacitors, but unfortunately sometimes in the absence or knowledge of designers for whom neither output transformers nor interstage coupling capacitors (regardless of brand, type, or cost) are good things. In other words, for some, there is no better output transformer than NO transformer, and there is no better coupling capacitor than NO capacitor. Moreover, there are designers out there smart enough to achieve either of those characteristics, and design tube amps that remain functionally stable and sonically excellent or better than more conventional designs that require their use in order to prevent catastrophic failure and damage. OTLs have been inherently difficult to design, although some companies such as Transcendent Sound, Atma-Sphere, Tenor Audio, and.................The David Berning Company, have all designed highly successful and arguably VERY competent designs. So, in order to gain a better understanding in order to prevent not only unfair but wholly inaccurate prejudgement based on the completely superficial aspect of outward appearance, it would be worthwhile to gain a more thorough understanding about what and how a vacuum tube OTL amplifier is and works. And there are probably some Klipsch and tube amp fans in this community who, to no fault of their own, may not happen to know what the acronym 'OTL' in OTL amplifier refers to. I've been associated with this forum since 2002, and watched other misrepresented portrayals of other noteworthy components that were based, in a rather elementary fashion, on the brand or type of capacitors used, the size of the power and output transformers (including parallel or 'shunt feed' output stages -- terms worthy of yet additional homework and study), and so on. Ultimately, the one who loses out in the end is the one who paints the negative portrait with very little (or ANY) understanding of how that particular component was designed or sounds. And, even more unfortunately, things like this happen in circumstances far more serious, tragic, and grave than our shared little hobby. I'll get you started: http://davidberning.com erik m. Edited March 20, 2019 by erik2A3 clarity, typo error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 And now, after completing my response above to Ski Bum, I see further posts still jabbing at that about which even a small amount of knowledge does not seem to exist -- much less an open-minded attitude toward something that both looks and IS extremely and intelligently different from what is familiar. Too bad. Education is powerful. If someone is going to criticize over superficial elements, go learn something about what it is that's being criticized, and then come back and speak knowledgeably about specific aspects of the component in terms of how it does what it does to a music signal as it passes from input to output. Then, after a reasonable amount of time listening to it in one's own system, come back and discuss its efficacy as a music reproducing machine. Anything else amounts to essentially zero, null set, nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Lastly here, I had a chance to purchase the very component under scrutiny here. I had other financial obligations at the time, but, at the asking price, I kick myself now for not buying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 23 minutes ago, erik2A3 said: I kick myself now for not buying it. Don't do that. I would suggest pinching yourself a much more appropriate action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Thanks, Erik, I was hoping to spur some discussion, not misrepresent anybody or anything negatively. Some of us participating in this very thread actually do know what OTL means, have familiarity with parafeed output, etc. If there is merit to the approach, any approach, it should be touted in a way as to not insult our intelligence. Links to the patents may be more useful than links to product pages that are devoid of technical information. Ok, having read the patents at the link you provided, it's still a shockingly poor value proposition IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 To our OP - Thank you for your post. These virtual pages are definitely more accustomed to much more conventional tube amplifier designs -- that historically have been actually much easier and more straightforward to build. This D. Berning amp is NOT merely 'run of the mill.' Good eye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, avguytx said: For $8,500 a pair, I'm going to need/want something with a little more "girth" to it than a single driver with a whizzer cone. That or they're going to have to do a reach around and give me a little kiss once in awhile. 30-20,000Hz...Plus or minus 20dB...but more minus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeloManiac Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 30-20,000Hz...Plus or minus 20dB...but more minus... Well, I've Read klipsch owners stating the Same about their speakers depending on room size, furniture and Wall material.I think the ravens are accurately described. As for power too, the ravens seem underpowered compared to the heresy's. But they are equally efficiënt.Also, our Hs are made of mdf with veneer. Perhaps the Ravens are made of genuine wood?As for the looks, appreciation is very subjectieve. It seems they to me they were inspired by the Heresy's. That is a compliment!As I'm typing this I'm listening Neil Young's This note's for You album on vinyl. My humble PR160M speakers are amazing. I drive them with a little amp that was delivered today: the TubeCube 7. Call me crazy. I live in Europe so I paid 63 dollars for postage and 100 dollars import taxes. I know tubedepot has them made in China But I wanted to make sure I Got the 'orinal'.Some of You are probably laughing in their fist now. But I don't care. I paid for It with my own money. The TubeCube is only 3.5 Watt. And It is much better than my Denon amp.Verstuurd vanaf mijn 5047U met Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 ^^^^^ === this amp has been marketed under many names. I believe it uses a Class D type power supply, i.e. switching. I have heard and used a variation of this amp several years ago - and I hate to use the term “for the money” but for the money this is a nice sounding little amp. Thete is nothing to laugh at — Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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