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What Is It About Klipsch?

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13 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

m Ok buddy. I think there was a miscommunication, perhaps on my part?  I've been here for more than a couple days and made more than a couple posts on here.  I've bought and sold a couple things here.   Been into klipsch for almost 20 years now (and I'm not that old).   Relax, I am on your side (though it seems not currently?) 

OK, fair enough!  Here is a bit of MY story.  I was a young paratrooper in Italy from 73-76.  We had NO stuff on TV in ENGLISH during that time...so the general rule of thumb was to buy a nice audio system...and spend money on record albums...either on post or off post.  There was an entity on the U.S. military bases in Europe called the USUREAR Audio/Photo agency and it sold some really nice quality stuff which was generally priced at or near ONE-HALF of MSRP!  So we all went and listened to speakers and upstream equipment to decide on what we wanted to purchase...then we watched others who had bought that particular equipment...to see how much abuse it could withstand...and narrowed down our choices.  The agency sold Heresy and LaScala speakers, but saw no need to put them out on the floor to be heard, since they sold out of each stash they got of them rapidly...So I never actually HEARD them.  Of what I actually DID hear, the JBL 4311 monitors fit my bill.  So They are what I bought!  I had decided to "Go Quad" for my system, and got an H/K 900+ receiver, a Technics SL 1300 turntable, with JVC (Audio-Technica) CD-4 quad cartridge and additional head shell with Sure M91ED cartridge installed....along with a TEAC A2340-R reel deck, two Soundcraftsman stereo equalizers, one DBX II model 124 quad Noise reduction unit,  and a Technics RS-676-AUS cassette deck.  When I got ready to come home in 1976, I sold the JBL monitors because I had already had four JBL L-36 speakers drop-shipped to my family's home stateside in Prescott, AR..  Within a few days of arriving home, out of the Army, I went and  began applying for jobs around the Hope/Prescott, AR area because I had to do so in order to draw unemployment.  I had heard that Klipsch was NOT hiring, so I went there with DD Form 214 in-hand to apply for a job, and wore bib overalls with no shirt at all.  When I handed my filled application to the lady behind the glass window, somebody came in behind me, excused himself to get past me, grabbed the application with DD214 copy attached...and turned and said  "Paratrooper, huh?"  "I was one, too!"...and told the lady I was hired!!!  That guy was Bob Moers.  So, I went inside and had to fill out more paperwork, they gave me a yellow Klipsch bullshit shirt, a "stolen from Paul Klipsch" coffee mug, a "stolen from Paul Klipsch" mini knife thingy, and a handful of the yellow "bullshit" buttons,  and told me to be there at 0800 on Monday to start work...then Bob took me back to meet PWK...he told him I just got off active duty as an Army infantry paratrooper, Bob excused himself, and left...and PWK and I chatted for a bit while attempted to size me up, he had asked me if I knew anything about Klipsch speakers, and I told him that I had but I had never heard them.  Then Bob came back in, and as we left PWK's office, PWK told him that I never heard any f the speakers...and said "Please take care of this", then Bob took me over to introduce me  to my foreman, Harrison Ross,  in the plant cabinet shop, who asked me about any wood-working/carpentry experience I had, and "sized me up"...then I was told I could go, but "Be sure you get here a few minutes before 0800 on Monday to clock in."  On the way out, Bob suggested that I bring a sack lunch with me on Monday, because he wanted to see me during my lunch break.

 

I STILL HAD NEVER HEARD ANY OF THE SPEAKERS, YET...but that changed Monday during lunchtime!!  I literally had carpet burn on my chin from walking out of the listening room to go back to work after lunch...BECAUSE MY JAW HAD DROPPED SO MUCH WHEN I HEARD THEM!  I have never wanted anything but Klipsch speakers ever since!!..and I've heard pretty much EVERYTHING ever made!  I made every part for any of the speakers in current production from July 1976 to September 1983...and how to assemble them...and IF I hear any of them "with a problem", I can almost always easily tell why they have that problem and how to fix it!  MOST of my time there was spent assembling Heresy and Cornwall cabinets, along with all of the Industrial models (when I had no room left to put more pallets of Heresy and Cornwall cabinets waiting to be sanded!), but I can and have built all of the speakers of that day,  at one time or another!.  Now you know a bit about my 66 year old self!  PALS????

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57 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

OK, fair enough!  Here is a bit of MY story.  I was a young paratrooper in Italy from 73-76.  We had NO stuff on TV in ENGLISH during that time...so the general rule of thumb was to buy a nice audio system...and spend money on record albums...either on post or off post.  There was an entity on the military bases in Europe called the USUREAR Audio/Photo agency and it sold some really nice quality stuff which was generally priced at or near ONE-HALF of MSRP!  So we all went and list3ened to speakers and upstream equipment to decide on what we wanted to purchase...then we watched others who had bought that particular equipment...to see how much abuse it could withstand...and narrowed down our choices.  The agency sold Heresy and LaScala speakers, but saw no need to put them out on the floor to be heard, since they sold out of each stash they got of them rapidly...So I never actually HEARD them.  Of what I actually DID hear, the JBL 4311 monitors fit my bill.  So They are what I bought!  I had decided to "Go Quad" for my system, and got an H/K 900+ receiver, a Technics SL 1300 turntable, with JVC quad cartridge and additional shell with Sure M91ED cartridge installed....along with a TEAC A2340-R reel deck, two Soundcraftsman stereo equalizers, one DBX II quad NRS, and a Technics RS-676-AUS cassette deck.  When I got ready to come home in 1976, I sold the JBL monitors because I had already had four JBL L-36 speakers drop-shipped to my family's home stateside in Prescott, AR..  Within a few days of arriving home, out of the Army, I went and  began appluing for jobs around the Hope/Prescott area because I had to do so in order to draw unemployment.  I had heard that Klipsch was NOT hiring, so I went there with DD Form 214 in-hand to apply for a job, and wore bib overalls with no shirt at all.  When I handed my filled application to the lady behind the glass window, somebody came in behind me, excused himself to get past me, grabbed the application with DD214 copy attached...and turned and said  "Paratrooper, huh?"  "I was one, too!"...and told the lady I was hired!!!  That guy was Bob Moers.  so I went inside and had to fill out more paperwork, they gave me a yellow Klipsch bullshit shirt, a "stpolen from Paul Klipsch" coffee mug, a "stolen from Paul Klipsch" mini knife thingy and told me to be there at 0800 on Monday to start work...then Bob took me back to meet PWK...told him I just got off active duty as an Army paratrooper, we talked for a few minutes, then Bob came back in and took me over to introduce me  to my foreman in the cabinet shop, who asked me about any work with wood that I had ever had, and "size me up"...then I was told I could go, but "Be sure you get here a few minutes before 0800 on Monday to clock in..

 

I STILL HAD NEVER HEARD ANY OF THE SPEAKERS, YET...but that changed Monday during lunchtime!!  I literally had carpet burn on my chin from walking out of the listening room to go back to work after lunch...BECAUSE MY JAW HAD DROPPED SO MUCH WHEN I HEARD THEM!  I have never wanted anything but Klipsch speakers ever since!!..and I've heard pretty much EVERYTHING ever made!  I made every part for any of the speakers in current production from July 1976 to September 1983...and how to assemble them...and IF I hear any of them "with a problem", I can easily tell why they have that problem and how to fix it!  MOST of my time there was assembling Heresay and Cornwall cabinets, but I can build ANY of them.  Now you know a bit my 66 year old self!  PALS????

I have seen your posts around here plenty and have seen several ask and make references to you. I didn't mean to offend if I did.   Was just stating my opinions on others speakers and what I have heard that matched what others were describing.   I am well aware of the tradeoffs for klipsch in my opinion, in my room for what I am willing to spend.  Not to mention, for what I liek to listen to.   Most hifI systems cannot produce what I like to listen to properly.  Klipsch can.   I love klipsch, if you read otherwise, now you know. I have been playing with stereos since I was about 15.  I know what I like and that's why I'm here (as it seems it is why you are as well).   See ya around. No hard feelings. 

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2 hours ago, glens said:

I'll chime in on this, too.  The primary reason for this is that those designs spill sound all around the room, and none of them will do that well unless they're positioned well away from boundaries, stealing precious (usually) room space.  It's why they create a more 3d image, though it's more often than not a coloration in and of itself.

I completely agree with you. I originally had my "other" speakers in what is now my Klipsch room and in a/b testing I realized that my room needed directivity and not wide dispersion. Most of us have to make some sacrifices because of the rooms we listen in. The Klipsch designers really have done great work in considering the room as a major part the equation. Did I mention I think the cabinet work is freaking awesome.

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Only way to eliminate room acoustics from your hearing of sound would be to eliminate the ROOM, e.g somehow wire the electrical audio signal directly into your brain's audio neural systems! And I do not know, but that medical technology may be out there right now! I.E. like the movie Brainstorm!
 

John Kuthe... 

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15 minutes ago, JohnKuthe said:

Only way to eliminate room acoustics from your hearing of sound would be to eliminate the ROOM, e.g somehow wire the electrical audio signal directly into your brain's audio neural systems! And I do not know, but that medical technology may be out there right now! I.E. like the movie Brainstorm!
 

John Kuthe... 

Awesome movie.

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What others have said, it's the only speaker brand that has given me an emotional connection to the music I listen to. I would never set and listen to music for hours with other manufactures, with Klipsch the time just seems to slip away. I love that and I love the fact that most of the products I listen to and enjoy are made right down the street from me. I tend to buy what I like and don't really care what brand it is, Klipsch is what I like and as long as they continue to give me the emotional connection to the music I love I will stay.

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20 minutes ago, rockhound said:

What others have said, it's the only speaker brand that has given me an emotional connection to the music I listen to. I would never set and listen to music for hours with other manufactures, with Klipsch the time just seems to slip away. I love that and I love the fact that most of the products I listen to and enjoy are made right down the street from me. I tend to buy what I like and don't really care what brand it is, Klipsch is what I like and as long as they continue to give me the emotional connection to the music I love I will stay.


Oh yeah!! I was playing my Djembe to Edgar Winter's "Frankenstein" 1973 live last evening, TWICE almost, but the second play I was just too tired and just sat back and LISTENED:

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#label/Sounds/QgrcJHsNqLwbmLVjBjDpJfFcKfxFRKtBFxl?projector=1

Which I just PUT ON in my monster La Scala's powered sound system in my basement/Hippie Pad/Recording Studio wannabe!!

Wow!! :-)

John Kuthe...

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3D, holographic stereo imaging is NOT Klipsch's Forte' (pun intended).  That is not to deny the other things they do well.  But around here if you state ANY deficiency or objection to Klipsch speakers you are vilified, as if Klipsch speaker do everything better than any other speaker ever made. It is just childish and factually wrong and practically impossible.  And when I listen to music I DO sit perfectly in the sweet spot and do not move my head much so as to get the full effect of imaging and sound stage.    Conversely I also listen to music as background and none of any of it matters in that case. 

 

But, you see, I too prefer many of the things that Klipsch does well. I own Klipsch speakers and enjoy them. That does not mean I do not know that just about any other speaker I have ever owned does imaging and soundstage better. PERIOD. 

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1 minute ago, kink56 said:

3D, holographic stereo imaging is NOT Klipsch's Forte' (pun intended).  

 

I would argue equipment matching plays a big role in this with certain tube gear the image can be quite big with lots of depth and realism. In my experience getting the best sound from Klipsch speakers can take some work but once you get them dialed in they perform exceptionally well within their price point typically with only a few watts needed, which is a big selling point for me. I've owned plenty of other brands and while some sounded as good as Klipsch it seemed as though there were draw backs, things often taken for granted with Klipsch speakers like availability of replacement parts for restoration or repair, not needing a subwoofer to compliment the mains or huge power amps just to get them to moderate listening levels etc. 

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11 hours ago, glens said:

 

First stop?  Last stop is where the heart is!

Oh, so they will, at Last, be there for a change. Excellent!

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I am not arguing that Klipsch does not have its advantages both in practical terms and sonics.  I am arguing they are not the best at imaging or soundstage. 

 

As far as I can determine is either that most have not ever experienced what WestCoastDrums has with the Dali megaline speakers. So they do not have a reference point of what real 3-D holographic imaging sounds like.  That is height, width and depth AND each instrument and singer has its own space, and individually has a 3-D quality. You can "see" the size and shape of the instrument, and the head, chest and throat of the singer.  It is as if you can walk around each performer in space.  The instruments do not change size or position as the frequency changes or the instruments go up and down the musical scale.  You can actually envision the size of the room they are performing in and detect the individual size of the separate rooms, spaces or booths they are divided into. The room you are in totally disappears, as do the speakers.  Close your eyes and "you are there". Whereas Klipsch is more like a "they are here" experience. 

 

 

Most speakers are one or, at best two dimensional. They do well with left, center, right imaging.  But they sound as if they are two dimensional paper cut outs occupying the same plane.   Some can get height fairly well. 

 

Now there are others here who HAVE experienced such imaging and soundstage with other speakers, but no matter, the emotional dynamics of Klipsch is preferred by them.  That is great.  

 

But please do not think that the imaging and soundstage you experience with Klipsch is the ultimate. It just is not so. You just have not experience it yet, and probably do not even care to. 

 

Yes, Klipsch can do a great job sounding just like the bar band you heard last night. And if that is what is meant by "live music" then Klipsch does that in spades. 

 

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Also my comments are limited to Klipsch Heritage speakers, not professional models or reference models. I would LOVE to hear some Jubes.  And I am not talking about horns in general. I understand the Western Electric models are quite impressive when it comes to imaging and soundstage (have not heard them myself). And I am not talking about the various modifications, home builds or clones etc.   My comments are limited to stock Klipsch Heritage speakers I have owned or simply just heard. They include K-horn, Belle, La Scala, Cornwall I and III, Forte I II and III, Heresy I, II and III. 

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3 minutes ago, kink56 said:

what real 3-D holographic imaging sounds like.  That is height, width and depth AND each instrument and singer has its own space, and individually has a 3-D quality. You can "see" the size and shape of the instrument, and the head, chest and throat of the singer.  It is as if you can walk around each performer in space.  The instruments do not change size or position as the frequency changes or the instruments go up and down the musical scale.  You can actually envision the size of the room they are performing in and detect the individual size of the separate rooms, spaces or booths they are divided into. 

 

Ever heard Beveridge (sp?) speakers?  I listened to a setup back in the '70s that had two ~6' tall enclosures with a full-height acoustic lens purported to disperse 180 degrees horizontally with no vertical spraying (no reflections off floor or ceiling).  Had a coffee table sub and drove the "satellites" membranes directly with xformerless tubes.  Uncanny localization!  They'd be equivalent to 50 or 60 k$ now, I'm sure.

 

"Satellites" with their backs against the wall on opposite sides of the room.  One could walk around and not lose imagery.

 

Do I want a set?  No.  But thanks for reminding me.

 

No other system I've heard would image like that without a locked-in listening position.  And truth be told, it's not realistic anyway because I'd never be able to "move amongst the musicians" (as you alluded to) while they're performing.  Depending on the program, I'd be locked in position and hearing the hall, or be free to roam about hearing the P.A.  The latter is what Klipsch can recreate in spades, in just about any room, with reasonable electronics, at a reasonable cost.

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My K-horns image quite nicely. I do have them well setup, 20 feet apart and tucked into corners.

The imaging is as good as I have heard with any other speaker. Magnapans that a friend of mine has do extremely well too, but no dynamics. Setup obviously is a big part in this.

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I have heard OF Beverage speakers, but neither have I seen or heard them. 

 

Klipsch could go a LONG way to improving the imaging and soundstage by doing at least two things:

1. Time and phase align all electronics and drivers. 

2. Eliminate the cabinet resonances, or at least strive to. 

 

(And some here have strived to modify their Klipsch speakers to achieve exactly that, but WHY should one have to do this? Klipsch should be the ones that achieve this as a finished product).  I have not heard Volti speakers, like the Vittora nor Amp & Sound. And there are a LOT of very high end horn speakers from Europe that I wish I could afford or at least hear to find out if I want to afford them!

 

These things would not sacrifice the other things Klipsch does so well.   

 

No, I have not heard nor owned Chorus I or II.  I imagine they are similar to Forte in many respects. 

 

Oh and what I meant by walking around the performers, I did not mean that in a literal sense. I meant the 3D is so realistic it would SEEM you could walk around all the performers.  The 3D effect would still require that one sits in the sweet spot. 

 

Yes, in their price range Klipsch is probably one of the best choices, such is the reason why I own them. 

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2 hours ago, JohnKuthe said:


Oh yeah!! I was playing my Djembe to Edgar Winter's "Frankenstein" 1973 live last evening, TWICE almost, but the second play I was just too tired and just sat back and LISTENED:

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#label/Sounds/QgrcJHsNqLwbmLVjBjDpJfFcKfxFRKtBFxl?projector=1

Which I just PUT ON in my monster La Scala's powered sound system in my basement/Hippie Pad/Recording Studio wannabe!!

Wow!! 🙂

John Kuthe...

IIRC, when "They Only Come Out At Night" album was being recorded, BOTH Ronnie Montrose AND Rick Derringer were in the band at the same time!  That's part of the reason the album is such a great listen!!

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Ronnie and Rick?  Gotta check that out! 

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I like them because they do front row seats better than anything else I have heard. My comment is based on both Heritage and Pro. No experience with Reference. The bigger the better.

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I had a front row seat once,  and I moved back about 10 rows to an unoccupied seat. MUCH BETTER!! 

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