Delicious2 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Tried several things to get around the hole in the center effect of K402/Khorns 22 feet apart sitting 12 feet away but they probably really need a center. Not quite ballsy enough to cut one of my K402 and make a MEH, I found a way to mount one in the fireplace which allows the projection screen to still pivot down into place. Now what to do about bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Gotta get some real room treatments/absorption around the horns too! I have some half baked idea about fabricating absorbing panels that attach to the horn's predrilled mouth edges... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Won't be needing that wood anymore 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Is the flute open or closed? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 Flutes definitely sound more "open" with this arrangement 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Santa's not gonna fit through that 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Delicious2 said: ...Not quite ballsy enough to cut one of my K402 and make a MEH, I found a way to mount one in the fireplace which allows the projection screen to still pivot down into place. Now what to do about bass? Too bad--it's a tailor-made application for an MEH--with a baffle front instead of a box, sort of reminiscent of this sort of this idea (but maybe just large enough to span the opening of the fireplace itself): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chris A said: Too bad--it's a tailor-made application for an MEH--with a baffle front instead of a box, sort of reminiscent of this sort of idea (but maybe just large enough to span the opening of the fireplace itself): Say more MEH master! What would happen to the back wave of the woofers without a box to seal them into? I have 2 of the 305 boxes you may remember... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 You don't need a seal--the woofers will work well in the non-sealed enclosed space of the fireplace, as long as there is a "virtual baffle" of the bricks/wall enclosure and the front face of the K-402 with short baffle transition extensions to transition from the K-402 flange face to the brick masonry. But...you'll need the woofers in the K-402 on off-axis ports in order to have horn-loaded bass and mid-bass. Otherwise you'll wind up having to use a separate box of not-small dimensions on the hearth to enclose the backwave of the woofers. A baffled MEH loads the woofers and provides the requirement for backwave attenuation/phase reversal. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 16 hours ago, Chris A said: ...K-402 with short baffle transition extensions to transition from the K-402 flange face to the brick masonry. What might this be/look like? Absorbing batts of 2" thick Roxul Rockboard extending out from the flange face covering the brick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 16 hours ago, Chris A said: But...you'll need the woofers in the K-402 on off-axis ports in order to have horn-loaded bass and mid-bass. So the off-axis ports are a different cut of the K-402 than you did with yours? I couldn't switch to the sealed 305 box at will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, Delicious2 said: What might this be/look like? Absorbing batts of 2" thick Roxul Rockboard extending out from the flange face covering the brick? The idea is to look like the following, but instead with short baffle extensions (i.e., plywood, etc.) from the K-402 flange angling back to the bricks in tapered fashion to eliminate a "baffle step" effect: 9 minutes ago, Delicious2 said: So the off-axis ports are a different cut of the K-402 than you did with yours? I couldn't switch to the sealed 305 box at will? The off-axis ports can be exactly like the ones in my prototype. You could also reuse the KPT-305 box, if you wish, if you cover the hole in the back of the box so that the box contains the backwave, but you still have room to fit in the K-402 and compression driver length (i.e., you need to measure to make sure that there is enough depth in the box where needed so that the compression driver--for instance, a TAD TD-4002) can fit. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 Ah, so the baffle front (got make sure it's not me that's baffled 😁) eliminates the need for absorption within a few feet of the horn? Good to know I could switch to the KPT-305 box. Cutting, finishing and attaching some plywood pieces for the baffle seems very doable. Now I just need some hand holding to cut my horn and mount the woofers 😝😱 There is clearly no good place for a bass box to go with this layout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Delicious2 said: ...There is clearly no good place for a bass box to go with this layout... You're not the only one with that problem... Necessitas est ingenii mater Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Chris, it's good your wife likes and appreciates good music reproduction. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (said with affection & respect) She's probably accepted his OCD by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 3/25/2019 at 1:46 PM, Delicious2 said: Tried several things to get around the hole in the center effect of K402/Khorns 22 feet apart sitting 12 feet away but they probably really need a center. Not quite ballsy enough to cut one of my K402 and make a MEH, I found a way to mount one in the fireplace which allows the projection screen to still pivot down into place. Now what to do about bass? === of any set up issue I’ve had with Jubes a listening hole in the center position has not been one of them. On the contrary I’ve always been amazed at the ghost center that one could easily be fooled a speaker is Not there. Speakers are spread about 23 feet on centers and not shoved in the corner a KHorn style but against the wall and toed with the 402 crossing about 8-10 feet behind the listening position. This position is perfect for this particular room — Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 13 hours ago, richieb said: === of any set up issue I’ve had with Jubes a listening hole in the center position has not been one of them. On the contrary I’ve always been amazed at the ghost center that one could easily be fooled a speaker is Not there. Speakers are spread about 23 feet on centers and not shoved in the corner a KHorn style but against the wall and toed with the 402 crossing about 8-10 feet behind the listening position. This position is perfect for this particular room — Thanks for running out your different experience. How far away do you sit from them? How far to the back wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 15 hours ago, Marvel said: Chris, it's good your wife likes and appreciates good music reproduction. Bruce Thanks. She does and she still comments frequently on how it keeps sounding better each time changes are made, even though she long ago thought it was "finished"--many times before. Perhaps this is as good a place as any to make a comment: the system in the photo I posted produces the most realistic sound that I've heard from a sound reproduction system. Apparently the investment over time in improving its sound--as opposed to doing something to make it look "prettier" to the eyes--has paid off handsomely. I spend most of my days in that room, listening in excess of 12 hours/day. Maybe there's something in that observation that's a more general truth: more than that which "meets the eye", which seems to have a high price in terms of the resulting sound. Spending money on "how it looks" first seems to seriously short circuit what can be accomplished in terms of "how it sounds". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why there might be a "hole in the center" effect: the major difference between a Jubilee and a K-402/Khorn bass bin is actually mid-bass polars. The Khorn bass bins put their polars more along the walls as the frequency rises, while the Jub bass bins have a more controlled polar coverage (especially since using first order crossover filters and shortened-down K-402s on top). I, too experience a complete sound field all the way across the front of the room (beyond the side walls). When playing the MEH using multichannel music, the soundstage is complete across the entire front of the room, no matter where you stand or sit. Speaking from experience, this is due to consistent polars of the MEH, along with dialing in the frequency response, phase and relative channel delays (which when you think about 5.1 channel delays, place the loudspeakers in a semicircle virtually around the listeners.) I believe that most of the most recent improvements in sound that I experienced going to first-order filters and shortened-down K-402s...all these changes affected one area of the sound spectrum: the midbass and lower midrange. I'm now a believer in full-range controlled directivity (i.e., not direct radiating bass) and particular attention to phase growth through (particularly) the mid-bass/midrange crossover filters. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 Well, throwinig any cautions about DR bass to the wind in the interest of using what I have to advance my experiment I repurposed my MIchael Green 60s and one of his racks to put some DR bass beneath the 402: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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