Cornscala mid horn

[Md5150]

2 hours ago, mopardave said:

Have you tried them at high volume, like 100+db?   Just curious how they sound up there.  

 

Yes WAY over that. I had them bi amped. Crown itech - 9000HD on woofers 2,500 wpc at 4ohms. and a Mcintosh Mc452 on mids and tweeters. They where as loud or louder as my Jubilee's and sounded great at concert volume. That's 2 pairs stacked in Corners. Jubilee's will crush a single pair.

 

Mike.

[mopardave]

28 minutes ago, Md5150 said:

 

Yes WAY over that. I had them bi amped. Crown itech - 9000HD on woofers 2,500 wpc at 4ohms. and a Mcintosh Mc452 on mids and tweeters. They where as loud or louder as my Jubilee's and sounded great at concert volume. That's 2 pairs stacked in Corners. Jubilee's will crush a single pair.

 

Mike.

Wow! That is one serious system. Nice.   I will keep the 2380 horns on my list, but I will look for a deal on the open throat horn first. Bob Crites says he used both the open throat 4750 horn and the 2380 narrow and wasn't much difference between the 2.  He now sells the 2380 because the 4750 is no longer made but still available on ebay.

[Khornukopia]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 6:20 AM, mopardave said:

ZXPC horn 17.5x11x12 ... for a 3 way Cornscala? 

 

1 hour ago, mopardave said:

and I would like to mount everything to the rear of the board.

 

This 17 x 11 horn is good, but must be mounted on the outside face of the motorboard, because of the contour of the flange. Also, it might not fit the depth of your Cornwall cabinet once the compression driver is attached. The ZXPC 18 x 10 horn is my recommendation for your type project, and can be mounted to the front or back of the motorboard. 

 

It is probably better for the audio performance to mount the horn on the outside of the motorboard if you can. 

[mopardave]

39 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

 

 

This 17 x 11 horn is good, but must be mounted on the outside face of the motorboard, because of the contour of the flange. Also, it might not fit the depth of your Cornwall cabinet once the compression driver is attached. The ZXPC 18 x 10 horn is my recommendation for your type project, and can be mounted to the front or back of the motorboard. 

 

It is probably better for the audio performance to mount the horn on the outside of the motorboard if you can. 

Thank you.  I know some of the horns can be mounted to the rear of the board but seems most cant. I believe the zxpc horn is only 8" deep.  Plenty of room with that horn.

[mopardave]

Here's a post comparing diffraction slot to no diffraction slot.

The seller ZXPC was very quick shipping the horns out, UPS delivered them early this morning.
I spent all day testing and listening to them.  I actually weighed and measured each horn:

Goldwood GM-450PB Horn - Actual Weight/Size (3pounds 6oz) 17-1/2"W x 9-1/2"L x 9-1/8"D
ZXPC 432 Horn - Actual Weight/Size (3pounds 5oz) 17-1/2"W x 11"L x 11-3/8"D (12"D with outside FaceLip)

This was a very interesting experiment!  I didn't expect there would be much difference between the two
horns but there certainly was.  This proves to me that the diffraction slot that most suggest avoiding
in horns if you want sound quality.... is true. The diffraction slot interferes with the overall sound.  
Here are the differences I found between these two horns:

Goldwood GM-450PB (Diffraction Slot Horn)
ZXPC 432 (Non Diffraction Slot Horn)

I did these test with four adults listening ears and present was small children and teenagers.  
I used the same amp, source, volume, and same driver between each horn, just
switching between them as we listened to the music and vocals.

Right away you can hear the ZXPC horn without a diffraction slot sounds much more open and everything
sounds more uniform and better all around balance, lower frequencies are better heard, vocals are more
open and clear sounding, music has better overall resolution and detail.

With the GM-450PB with diffraction slot, the lows sound less heard and the vocals are more forward in
kind of a piercing way.  The GM-450PB horn has always sounded good to me and I've liked it but not so
much when comparing it with the ZXPC horn.  Certain frequencies are less heard with the GM-450PB horn
but more in favor of the vocals taking priority but can sound a bit piercing and harsh somewhat at
times, where the ZXPC horn doesn't or is much more less noticed.  The build quality on both horns are
good and hefty enough for large heavy drivers, they are close in build quality with slightly better on
the Goldwood GM-450PB. The Goldwood is the smaller horn but weighs 1oz. more than the ZXPC bigger horn,
if the ZXPC was built like the Goldwood, it would weigh close to 4 pounds.

The ZXPC horn sounds louder at same volumes than the GM-450PB horn, almost like that diffraction slot
is constricting some of the sound in the GM-450PB horn but the ZXPC just overall sounds better as if
it's letting all the sound out in a natural uniform free flowing way with high and low frequencies
just all blend together well at the same levels. I can hear higher frequencies and weaker lower
frequencies with the GM-450PB horn. It's very easy to hear... anyone should be able to hear the
difference right away. If you push the volumes at high levels, much louder than I ever listen to, the
GM-450PB can start to get more piercing sounding in the higher frequencies, like the SSS in female vocals,
chimes, bells, etc. that hit in the higher freq.

Everyone picked the ZXPC horn in the room as the best sounding, no one person picked the GM-450PB, I was
surprised about that!  The kids couldn't say specifically what it was they liked about the ZXPC horn
but said it just sounds better that they like that one (ZXPC).  I do use the GM-450PB horn on my
center channel speaker and it seems to work well for that purpose with it's type of vocal presentation
of throwing the vocals more forward than some of the rest of the sound but I bet even the ZXPC horn
might do better but I'm stuck with the GM-450PB horn for center speaker, the ZXPC horn and driver
combo are too long for that cabinet.

I have not done any test plots between these two horns as of yet, only listening test. I had done some
test plots a few years ago on the GM-450PB horn and recall those were pretty good results.
The 4 bolt-On mounts for both horns GM-450PB and ZXPC are near identicle to the standard 4-bolt and I
had no problems mounting the drivers to either.

Does the ZXPC horns make me want to replace my GM-450PB horns?  Yes, they do!! I can't fault the GM-450PB
horns because I've always thought they sound good, but switching between the horns while listening, the
ZXPC sounds so much better that I would like to use it instead but my CornScala's that use the GM-450PB

horns are not deep enough to accommodate the ZXPC horn and driver combo either, but I amgoing to use these

ZXPC horns in a new speaker build I'm planning.

Hope this helps anyone curious about diffraction slot horns as I was!

Pictures: ZXPC Horn Left - GM-450PB Horn Right

Horns:

Goldwood GM-450PB $49.25
http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gm-450pb-2-high-frequency-horn-4-bolt--270-204

PRV Audio WG45-50 $47.99
http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-wg45-50-2-90-x-40-abs-waveguide-4-bolt--294-2893

ZXPC 432 $39.99

http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-x-17-ABS-2-Bolt-On-Long-Throw-Horn-90-x-40-For-Many-2-Exit-Driver-/331676072699

 Edited May 19, 2016 by SkyDover

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Have you considered building an Edgar Tractrix horn to compare to the ZXPC?  

 

I had asked the ZXPC supplier if he can build the tractrix, he was interested but did not follow up.  If we could get maybe 5 or ten of us interested in a tractrix maybe he will make them.  If the same price as the ZXPC, I'd be in for two pairs with Fc of say 250 or 275 (to use with K Horns and with La Scalas), so we just need maybe 8 more interested parties to make a good offer to get a run going. 

[mopardave]

34 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

Have you considered building an Edgar Tractrix horn to compare to the ZXPC?  

 

I had asked the ZXPC supplier if he can build the tractrix, he was interested but did not follow up.  If we could get maybe 5 or ten of us interested in a tractrix maybe he will make them.  If the same price as the ZXPC, I'd be in for two pairs with Fc of say 250 or 275 (to use with K Horns and with La Scalas), so we just need maybe 8 more interested parties to make a good offer to get a run going. 

No I have not. Is it daveA that makes them?

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I don't know who makes them anymore, but if you can build a set of Cornscalas you have the skills to build the Edgar horns. 

 

That said, if the ZXPC guy will make them for $80 a pair, I'd much rather just pay for them. 

[geoff.]

I don’t know why Faital Pro doesn’t offer a 2” throat tractrix, a larger version of the LTH142...

 

I would think they would clean up with that.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

5 minutes ago, geoff. said:

I don’t know why Faital Pro doesn’t offer a 2” throat tractrix, a larger version of the LTH142...

 

I would think they would clean up with that.

 

I seem to remember Bob asking them and they need to do a very large run to make it worth their while. 

 

The ZXPC guy may be able to do a run if we had 10 or 20 individual units sold.  I need 4 of them...

[geoff.]

This may deserve a separate thread!

 

It is practically a no-brainer... 

 

Someone is set to make a killing here.

[mopardave]

I may have lined up some used 11x17x12  zxpc horns from a member here.  Will know more tomorrow.

[mike stehr]

I have a pair of the 2380 clones sitting in the back room.

 

I went with the LTH142/HF140 for a two-way Cornscala...makes for a more simple passive crossover.

[mopardave]

2 hours ago, mike stehr said:

I have a pair of the 2380 clones sitting in the back room.

 

I went with the LTH142/HF140 for a two-way Cornscala...makes for a more simple passive crossover.

Ok. Just measured inside my cabinets and either the 2380 or the hm4750 will fit perfect.  Those seem to be my 2 best options.

[pzannucci]

On 3/28/2019 at 2:11 PM, mopardave said:

With the GM-450PB with diffraction slot, the lows sound less heard and the vocals are more forward in
kind of a piercing way.  The GM-450PB horn has always sounded good to me and I've liked it but not so
much when comparing it with the ZXPC horn.  Certain frequencies are less heard with the GM-450PB horn
but more in favor of the vocals taking priority but can sound a bit piercing and harsh somewhat at
times, where the ZXPC horn doesn't or is much more less noticed.  The build quality on both horns are
good and hefty enough for large heavy drivers, they are close in build quality with slightly better on
the Goldwood GM-450PB. The Goldwood is the smaller horn but weighs 1oz. more than the ZXPC bigger horn,
if the ZXPC was built like the Goldwood, it would weigh close to 4 pounds.

 

I find that vocals, especially when used in a 2 way suffer.  Very similar to this eval.  Kind of drilling added to the sound and couldn't EQ it out.  Sold all of the horns including the GM-450pb because of that.  Seems open throat is more natural.  I even recognize a hint of it on my RB-5's where they have more of a slot (more parallel walls) entering the horn.

 

This may be application or preference.  

[mopardave]

1 hour ago, pzannucci said:

I find that vocals, especially when used in a 2 way suffer.  Very similar to this eval.  Kind of drilling added to the sound and couldn't EQ it out.  Sold all of the horns including the GM-450pb because of that.  Seems open throat is more natural.  I even recognize a hint of it on my RB-5's where they have more of a slot (more parallel walls) entering the horn.

 

This may be application or preference.  

Not sure if the 4750slf horn has a open throat or not, but if it is open that will be the horns I get. They are pricey thou.  I will continue to look for a horn just like it for less money.  Thanks

[windashine]

8 minutes ago, mopardave said:

will continue to look...

 

… o O (has your search encountered the 403 ?)

 

[mopardave]

32 minutes ago, windashine said:

 

… o O (has your search encountered the 403 ?)

 

No. I will check it out.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

On 3/28/2019 at 2:30 PM, geoff. said:

This may deserve a separate thread!

 

It is practically a no-brainer... 

 

Someone is set to make a killing here.

 

Do you need any of them? 

[mopardave]

1 hour ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

 

Do you need any of them? 

I don't think I will go that route.  I found 1 horn (HM4750slf) that fits my project as well as my budget.  I will just have to step up to the pay window for these babies thou as they are not cheap.