Help Identifying speakers...

[ReSOURCE VT]

I stumbled on this site trying to determine what these speakers were when they arrived. This has been one of those rare instances in life where everything worked out perfectly. Kudos to this community. It is obvious that you have a passion for the brand and a vast knowledge of the topic. Our organization thanks you.

We receive all manner of speakers, electronics and antiques. We sell on E-Bay as resource_burlington  (We currently have a Rotel amp that came in with the speakers). I will make sure to use your garage sale forum for anything interesting we receive and most certainly for any Klipsch that come our way (What's the chance it will happen twice?).

 

Jeremy Noyes

https://resourcevt.org/

 

 

 

[mark1101]

5 hours ago, Frzninvt said:

Went and looked at these congrats on your purchase Mark they are in fantastic condition. 

 

Well, I don't have them yet, but we do have a deal. Thanks

[mark1101]

Well I received the speakers and they are gorgeous.  However, I found them to be unlistenable in a home audio system.  They are stage monitors..........the mids are jacked way up out of balance and they have heavy duty woofers (K42).  The tweeter filter is so sharp you can barely hear the tweeters.  I recapped the networks and it changed virtually nothing.  I then started playing with the auto transformer taps to rebalance the mids and highs vs. the woofer.  I have two other pair of Heresy 1s and so I hooked one up along with one of these industrials.  No comparison.  No matter what I did the stage monitors do not belong in a home audio system with the original woofers and crossovers.  I then replaced the networks with the E networks from my heresy 1s.  Still not listenable by comparison to a good Heresy 1.

 

The main issue?  The K42.  Networks to a lesser degree.  There was no way to get a good balanced true Heresy sounding home audio speaker out of this system with that woofer involved.

 

I removed them.  I am in the process of replacing with a pair of Crites woofers and I already converted the networks to E.

 

Basically, I am transforming these stage monitors into a pair of Heresy 1s since that is what the horns and drivers of the mids and tweeters are.

 

Hopefully, this will take care of making them into home audio Heresys.  Actually sort of a fun but exhausting and costly experiment.

 

But these slant monitors are just gorgeous and so unique in birch.  As long as they sound right, these are going in my dining room.

 

Soon up for sale 1 pair K42 woofers in excellent condition.  Look brand new.

 

I don't think these speakers ever saw their intended application.  They barely have even a scratch on them and they must be close to 40 years old or more.

[HDBRbuilder]

On 3/29/2019 at 2:30 PM, Budman said:

your ad should say Birch Raw HI-SM which stands for Heresy Industrial - Stage Monitors

you don't need to describe anything more because the pictures tell the story. anybody seriously interested in them will know what they are.

i would take the backs off of both and snap a picture of the insides to make sure they are what the label says

K-77 tweeter

K-55 V midrange

K-42 woofers

HI - crossovers

if i were you i would make a deal with Mark1101 and keep them in the family😁 just saying

 

 

 

They are birch laquered

[JohnA]

2 hours ago, mark1101 said:

Well I received the speakers and they are gorgeous.  However, I found them to be unlistenable in a home audio system.  They are stage monitors..........the mids are jacked way up out of balance and they have heavy duty woofers (K42).  The tweeter filter is so sharp you can barely hear the tweeters.  I recapped the networks and it changed virtually nothing.  I then started playing with the auto transformer taps to rebalance the mids and highs vs. the woofer.  I have two other pair of Heresy 1s and so I hooked one up along with one of these industrials.  No comparison.  No matter what I did the stage monitors do not belong in a home audio system with the original woofers and crossovers.  I then replaced the networks with the E networks from my heresy 1s.  Still not listenable by comparison to a good Heresy 1.

 

The main issue?  The K42.  Networks to a lesser degree.  There was no way to get a good balanced true Heresy sounding home audio speaker out of this system with that woofer involved.

 

I removed them.  I am in the process of replacing with a pair of Crites woofers and I already converted the networks to E.

 

Basically, I am transforming these stage monitors into a pair of Heresy 1s since that is what the horns and drivers of the mids and tweeters are.

 

Hopefully, this will take care of making them into home audio Heresys.  Actually sort of a fun but exhausting and costly experiment.

 

But these slant monitors are just gorgeous and so unique in birch.  As long as they sound right, these are going in my dining room.

 

Soon up for sale 1 pair K42 woofers in excellent condition.  Look brand new.

 

I don't think these speakers ever saw their intended application.  They barely have even a scratch on them and they must be close to 40 years old or more.

 

Wait! Wait!  Don't change them too much.  They seem to sound just right, for what they are.  Similar to HIPs they will have little response below 100 Hz.  Plus, the K-42s have a rising response curve, hitting 102 dB/w/m before the crossover to the squawker.

https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/EVM12L_EDS_F01U329439.pdf

That's why the squawker and tweeter are run at 104 dB like the Big 3.  The design is intended to cut through the roar on stage so a vocalist can hear himself. 

 

A properly constructed 2nd order low pass on the woofer and dropping the squawker and tweeter two steps on the autoformer can bring them back into better balance.  It will be similar to a Cornwall Type B2, but keep the Type AA tweeter filter.  That will have them running 99 dB/w/m.  However, they will never sound like Heresies and will still sound bright because of the missing bass guitar and drums.  

 

Your woofer low pass looks like it should be calculated to be 500 Hz (-3 dB) to get a 700 to 800 Hz crossover point to the squawker and 99-ish dB/w/m.   

 

Swapping in a K-2x may not work well because of cabinet volume. 

[mark1101]

1 hour ago, JohnA said:

 

Wait! Wait!  Don't change them too much.  They seem to sound just right, for what they are.  Similar to HIPs they will have little response below 100 Hz.  Plus, the K-42s have a rising response curve, hitting 102 dB/w/m before the crossover to the squawker.

https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/EVM12L_EDS_F01U329439.pdf

That's why the squawker and tweeter are run at 104 dB like the Big 3.  The design is intended to cut through the roar on stage so a vocalist can hear himself. 

 

A properly constructed 2nd order low pass on the woofer and dropping the squawker and tweeter two steps on the autoformer can bring them back into better balance.  It will be similar to a Cornwall Type B2, but keep the Type AA tweeter filter.  That will have them running 99 dB/w/m.  However, they will never sound like Heresies and will still sound bright because of the missing bass guitar and drums.  

 

Your woofer low pass looks like it should be calculated to be 500 Hz (-3 dB) to get a 700 to 800 Hz crossover point to the squawker and 99-ish dB/w/m.   

 

Swapping in a K-2x may not work well because of cabinet volume. 

 

I appreciate the suggestions.  I spent a whole day reconfiguring them in every possible way that made sense along with using measurements.  You actually can't balance them properly with just a T2A and that woofer.  I changed network taps multiple times.  I am VERY VERY sure the K42 is not a good choice for me for home audio..........even with a sub I wouldn't use it.   It only gets down to around 100 Hz as you say but it is not very agile.  When I compared them to any of the Klipsch I have they are virtually useless as is.  If I had to I could easily restore the networks.  Don't think I will need to though.  But I'm selling the woofers.  Want some K-42s?

[mark1101]

One interesting point you brought up was cabinet volume.  I have a heresy sitting right next to the monitors and looked closely at this a few minutes ago.  The volumes look to me to be very close.  Do you have any calculations?  A little tricky trying to calculate the volume of the slant monitor.  Would be interesting to know this.  Thanks for any additional info.

[Marvel]

Those EVM-12L speakers are massive and were used in a lot of guitar appms (think Mesa Boogie amps). Very high sensitivity.  Beautiful cabinets... I had a pair I got from jwc, from one of his large collection. They were in some home made front loaded horn cab, meant for mid bass.

[glens]

2 hours ago, mark1101 said:

One interesting point you brought up was cabinet volume.  I have a heresy sitting right next to the monitors and looked closely at this a few minutes ago.  The volumes look to me to be very close.  Do you have any calculations?  A little tricky trying to calculate the volume of the slant monitor.  Would be interesting to know this.  Thanks for any additional info.

 

Post up the dimensions of both, I'll do the cipherin'.

[JohnA]

Rectangles and triangles - wall thickness - driver volumes.  😀

[glens]

Or could remove the tweeters one each box style, lay the boxes face up and compare how much water they hold!

 

On the monitor, measure the top from one of the front corners to each of the other corners in order, then again from the other front corner to each of the others going the opposite direction, plus the height.  Width, depth, & height (less any riser) of the standard box, too.  They most likely differ (namely the woofers), but I'll figure the drivers take up the same space.  I'm only interested in how the volumes of the boxes themselves compare.  Math is easy and fun and I don't get to do enough of it.

[mark1101]

Well the Crites woofers and E networks did the trick.  I now have a very nice sounding pair of heresys that happen to have slant monitor cabinets.  They sound exactly like my '81 Heresys, but look a ton cooler.  I will surely be keeping these.

[HDBRbuilder]

52 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

Well the Crites woofers and E networks did the trick.  I now have a very nice sounding pair of heresys that happen to have slant monitor cabinets.  They sound exactly like my '81 Heresys, but look a ton cooler.  I will surely be keeping these.

In your pics, I could not make out the stamped initials on the rear of the speakers...I can make out an "O" below one stamped-in initial...but what are the other initials on both cabinets?  Do either of them have an "A"??...the "A" (if there is one) would be the top initial above a second initial.

 

I might have built these.  MORE IMPORTANTLY, these may well have been built for a Klipsch employee...clear gloss lacquered birch slant monitors WITHOUT any metal corners/edge trim, along with the Black "Klipsch" painted on is quite a rarity...and a VERY few pairs like this were built for employees, along with just a few more being built for outside customers on special orders....so it is what it is!  Lucky YOU, huh?

 

[HDBRbuilder]

48 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

Well the Crites woofers and E networks did the trick.  I now have a very nice sounding pair of heresys that happen to have slant monitor cabinets.  They sound exactly like my '81 Heresys, but look a ton cooler.  I will surely be keeping these.

Per your PM request, here is what you asked me to post:

 

Interior volume is very close if not exactly like the Heresy "1".  Just go with E-type crossover, and K-22 woofer, and you will be just fine.  The slant monitor was designed so that singers could get immediate feedback from how their voice was being mic'ed, while at the same time not providing feedback or providing minimal feedback from amplified instruments....that is why it was designed to lay on its side angled upwards!  The upwards angle helped immensely in eliminating or at least heavily reducing feedback from amplified music normally coming from well-behind the singers.

 

When positioning the slant monitors in corners, do NOT cram them into a corner...but put them in the corner with 4 inches or more between the walls...and move them outwards from the corner until they sound best to you...once you get them to that point you can fine-adjust them towards the "sweet spot" if you desire to do so.  The fine adjustment is a slow process...towing them inwards while retaining optimum length between the corner walls for each of them...you'll understand what I mean when you begin doing it.

[mark1101]

2 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

In your pics, I could not make out the stamped initials on the rear of the speakers...I can make out an "O" below one stamped-in initial...but what are the other initials on both cabinets?  Do either of them have an "A"??...the "A" (if there is one) would be the top initial above a second initial.

 

I might have built these.  MORE IMPORTANTLY, these may well have been built for a Klipsch employee...clear gloss lacquered birch slant monitors WITHOUT any metal corners/edge trim, along with the Black "Klipsch" painted on is quite a rarity...and a VERY few pairs like this were built for employees, along with just a few more being built for outside customers on special orders....so it is what it is!  Lucky YOU, huh?

 

 

There is nothing below the O.  The O is on the vertical edge, and only on that one speaker.  BUT, both speakers have a T on the top horizontal edge a few inches from where that O is (left side).  On the right vertical edge is USA on both speakers.

 

So, the million dollar question............what year were they made?  Serials are 2785 and 2788.

 

In the 80s a friend of mine had a pair that resembled these but they were raw birch.  Those were the only ones I ever saw like this.  They came from Superior Sound in Syracuse, NY.

 

So.............I think most people on this forum would vomit if they knew how much I paid for these, the professional packaging / shipping, and the hundreds I put into them since I got them here.  I sort of knew they were extremely rare.  But I did a little research (on the seller) before I purchased, and this basically amounted to a charitable donation to the seller's organization.  So, I was happy to do it and wind up with these beauties.

 

 

[HDBRbuilder]

14 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

There is nothing below the O.  The O is on the vertical edge, and only on that one speaker.  BUT, both speakers have a T on the top horizontal edge a few inches from where that O is (left side).  On the right vertical edge is USA on both speakers.

 

So, the million dollar question............what year were they made?  Serials are 2785 and 2788.

 

In the 80s a friend of mine had a pair that resembled these but they were raw birch.  Those were the only ones I ever saw like this.  They came from Superior Sound in Syracuse, NY.

The builder was "T"...he stamped his initial in the wrong place...must have been new or something...."O" or "OD" was Ola Mae Davis...she sanded these prior to them going to the finish department.  I imagine that these were built after I left...there was no "T" as a builder while I was there.

 

As for the time of manufacture, You will have to ask Jim Hunter the historian...industrial speaker serial numbers are a completely different animal compared to the home speaker lines!

[jimjimbo]

32 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

 

There is nothing below the O.  The O is on the vertical edge, and only on that one speaker.  BUT, both speakers have a T on the top horizontal edge a few inches from where that O is (left side).  On the right vertical edge is USA on both speakers.

 

So, the million dollar question............what year were they made?  Serials are 2785 and 2788.

 

In the 80s a friend of mine had a pair that resembled these but they were raw birch.  Those were the only ones I ever saw like this.  They came from Superior Sound in Syracuse, NY.

 

So.............I think most people on this forum would vomit if they knew how much I paid for these, the professional packaging / shipping, and the hundreds I put into them since I got them here.  I sort of knew they were extremely rare.  But I did a little research (on the seller) before I purchased, and this basically amounted to a charitable donation to the seller's organization.  So, I was happy to do it and wind up with these beauties.

 

 

 

 

Let me know how much you want for the K42's.

[mark1101]

OK, thanks for the info.  I asked the historian.

[mark1101]

The K42s are already sold.  Sorry.