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Chorus II currently trending up. Share your experience.


314carpenter

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I have been tracking how long it takes to sell a Chorus II after it is first listed for sale. No I don't have a speadsheet. IMHO when an identical item sells repeatedly to the first person with the cash in the first hours of listing, he most definelty left money on the table.

 

From my searches, almost every single great condition Chorus II listed under $800 has sold within the first 24 hours for the past 2 years. Yet the current average price for Chorus II is $737 THANKS to our resident price trackers.  Yes, some examples have sat much longer,  but I think those examples had some issues that buyers or sellers did not want to deal with, while the others I have mentioned did not. Supply has fell so far behind demand. There is also the fact that Chorus II has no direct replacement (Chorus I was ported unlike the Forte I,II,III), in addition to the vast price differential over buying new. Some sellers have now finally woken up. Supply is still a regional problem though. Now of course the market size for these is still shrinking, but not as fast as the supply. Forte II are much easier to find. And the best stuff always sells first. I personally am just fine with market prices trending up. 

 

In summary, recently I have been totally unsuccessful in my search for a third pair of Walnut Chorus II that is actually still available when I get a response. The 2 pairs I did manage to buy over the past 2 years required an immediate response, an immediate unplanned trip of over 800 miles RT, and a seller willing to hold them while I traveled. If you got a pair of CH II WO you are thinking of selling, you should probably just PM me for a guaranteed result.  Actually, I only have use for 5 total, so an orphan would be great, and even more improbable.

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All Heritage seem to be trending up over the long haul. To think that my late 60's Cornwall II and '74 Cornwalls were purchased for under a grand per pair (very good looking/condition) - and my '76 Cornwalls for $375 (Trading Times flyer locally) is laughable these days. These were purchased when supply was high, and a lot of people thought they were just "big, old speakers". Now that supply is in the hands of people who want to keep them, as well as Heritage being in production (establishing a benchmark for what these speakers are really worth), and you have a recipe for rising prices.

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On 3/31/2019 at 12:49 PM, 314carpenter said:

From my searches, almost every single great condition Chorus II listed under $800 has sold within the first 24 hours for the past 2 years. Yet the current average price for Chorus II is $737

Good analysis, the entire post.  I just quoted the part I wanted to follow-up on.

 

The average price for Chorus II in Good condition is now up to $740.  That supports your contention they are trending UP since I have 31 samples and it takes a lot to move the average.

 

I have so many Ch2's I have a second category for Condition Avg/Poor (in my grading system, C, D, F).   Ten samples average $714, again supporting your contention that Ch2's in any condition hold their value really well.

 

As a personal note, the Chorus II is the Klipsch speaker I'd most like to hear.  I don't want to buy them, I'd just like to hear a pair sometime.

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On ‎3‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 11:39 AM, SWL said:

Are there new production woofer replacements for the Chorus I and ll? Fortes?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

 

The chief said the new k-48st is a suitable replacement in the Chorus although they are slightly different, I'd order 2 if I went that route. I do not believe there is a direct replacement for the original k-23/25 woofer that came in the forte I / II although Crites has an aftermarket woofer. The new forte III woofer appears to be closer to a pro woofer like the k-42 from what I've seen in pictures possibly why the low end response was reduced from 32hz in the older models to 38hz in the new model. I can't say that I blame them for the change it seems the old style woofer was the weak point in the speaker and would easily blow if over-driven. 

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On 3/31/2019 at 11:49 AM, 314carpenter said:

From my searches, almost every single great condition Chorus II listed under $800 has sold within the first 24 hours for the past 2 years. Yet the current average price for Chorus II is $737 THANKS to our resident price trackers.  Yes, some examples have sat much longer,  but I think those examples had some issues that buyers or sellers did not want to deal with, while the others I have mentioned did not. Supply has fell so far behind demand. There is also the fact that Chorus II has no direct replacement (Chorus I was ported unlike the Forte I,II,III), in addition to the vast price differential over buying new. Some sellers have now finally woken up. Supply is still a regional problem though. Now of course the market size for these is still shrinking, but not as fast as the supply. Forte II are much easier to find. And the best stuff always sells first. I personally am just fine with market prices trending up. 

I rarely buy or sell according to that tracker and pay it little attention. When I care to look there my buying price is often as high or higher as sell price there and I sell for hundreds more with recaps and perhaps one of my tweeters running it up 4 to 5 hundred more and I sell every one I can get. The problem with those tracker things is right now they are good for only six months or so from an actual sale. Maybe less than that as it seems prices are rising faster and faster.

 

  Last two Chorus I sets I sold went for $1200 and lasted for about a week and a half to two and a half. Can't find any Chorus II's around here at less than much more than $743 when they do op up. Use that list as a history of what has been paid in the past and what you might pay today on a super lucky day.

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

I rarely buy or sell according to that tracker and pay it little attention.

Simply for greater clarity for all who are reading the thread. My research has been primarily through craigslist listings throughout the CONUS, audiokarma, usaudiomart, audiogon, avsforum, and anything I can find on hifishark. I look through our Klipsch forums, but that is the last place I ever find these listed, other than alerts, or a few randoms.  I am definitely not basing any of my information on what happens on ebay, or private retailers listings. Also I have not including postings on letgo, facebook marketplace, or any social media outlets.

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3 hours ago, Dave A said:

Can't find any Chorus II's around here at less than much more than $743 when they do op up. Use that list as a history of what has been paid in the past and what you might pay today on a super lucky day.

 

I realize some people get upset because the spreadsheet doesn't meet their expectations, I get that, but the numbers are the numbers.  There is no emotion involved in determining the price of something someone thinks has great sound compared to something else.  I simply record what comes across my radar.

 

I've sent out hundreds of copies of the spreadsheet and it's a help to most people because if a person hasn't been following speaker prices for years, it's hard to know what a fair market price is.  They can research prior sales and compare condition, age, upgrades and geographical area and make an informed decision. 

 

Dave, you said you sold your last highly modded Chorus for $1200 but what did you pay for them?  Not $1200 I would guess.  B)

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All I am trying to say is if you are in line to purchase a pair of good condition Chorus II in good condition, and you are only willing to pay $750 or less, and you are NOT THE VERY FIRST PERSON TO CONTACT, you will probably be dead before you get a pair, again UNLESS YOU ARE FIRST. In my opinion sellers are leaving tons of money on the table and have been for years by not allowing the market to dictate final pricing. Right or wrong, this is my opinion based on my own research. I have called every single listing in my area for several years now have been first twice.

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52 minutes ago, 314carpenter said:

All I am trying to say is if you are in line to purchase a pair of good condition Chorus II in good condition, and you are only willing to pay $750 or less,

 

That are other ways how the spreadsheet might be used.  Anyone who has studied it (Chorus II in Good Condition for instance) can see there are over ten sales of Ch2's $600 or less.  They can also see the last three sales are 750, 850, 800.  They can also see my detailed notes showing Ch2's which have an advertised price of $1250 do not sell.  They may also see there are no sales within 4 hours of their particular geographical area. 

 

They might also see an advertisement for Chorus II's for $800, and a pair of La Scalas for $800.  The spreadsheet can also help a buyer determine relative value.  Many people have asked that exact question, "which would you buy..." for the same amount of money?

 

The numeric average doesn't tell anybody what a particular speaker is worth, it tells you how the price fits into others who have bought similar speakers.  A numeric average is a point on a range.  Any used speaker, any NEW speaker is worth whatever a willing Seller and a willing Buyer can agree on.

 

Deals are out there.  B)

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7 minutes ago, wvu80 said:

 

That are other ways how the spreadsheet might be used.  Anyone who has studied it (Chorus II in Good Condition for instance) can see there are over ten sales of Ch2's $600 or less.  They can also see the last three sales are 750, 850, 800.  They can also see my detailed notes showing Ch2's which have an advertised price of $1250 do not sell.  They may also see there are no sales within 4 hours of their particular geographical area. 

 

They might also see an advertisement for Chorus II's for $800, and a pair of La Scalas for $800.  The spreadsheet can also help a buyer determine relative value.  Many people have asked that exact question, "which would you buy..." for the same amount of money?

 

The numeric average doesn't tell anybody what a particular speaker is worth, it tells you how the price fits into others who have bought similar speakers.  A numeric average is a point on a range.  Any used speaker, any NEW speaker is worth whatever a willing Seller and a willing Buyer can agree on.

 

Deals are out there.  B)

Well said. Thanks for adding. Love those facts you added. I was not aware you had notes on the time frames of certain listings. I do know when prices reach a ceiling they will not sell, and when they are low, they fly off the shelf. And I am not picking on you at all or the research you have done. I value greatly what you do.  Hoping we get more experiences and feedback on the subject. All opinions are welcome.

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1 minute ago, 314carpenter said:

Well said. Thanks for adding. Love those facts you added. I was not aware you had notes on the time frames of certain listings. I do know when prices reach a ceiling they will not sell, and when they are low, they fly off the shelf. And I am not picking on you at all or the research you have done. I value greatly what you do.  Hoping we get more experiences and feedback on the subject. All opinions are welcome. 

 

If you click on any cell with a red triangle you can read my detailed notes.  Condition, finish, area, whether the sale was reported by a Buyer or Seller (it makes a difference!) and if there was any value added, like Crites XO's and drivers.

 

I would also thank you for your contributions.  I am always looking for ways to make the spreadsheet better.  It is not perfect and I take all suggestions.  I split some speakers that I had a lot of samples into two categories (Good vs Poor Condition) thanks to feedback from others.

 

The spreadsheet now has a couple of years worth of sales recorded, and regarding your original premise (which I agree with) I think Heritage prices are trending up.

 

I was playing with the spreadsheet crunching the numbers and your theory is confirmed:

 

Average all Ch2 since 2017:  $740

Avg last 3 sales:  $783

Avg last 5 sales:  $830

 

I wonder if there's an easy way to get the spreadsheet to report the last five (or so) sales?  High, low, average, Last Five sales?  Sales in the Last Six Months?

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2 hours ago, wvu80 said:

 

I realize some people get upset because the spreadsheet doesn't meet their expectations, I get that, but the numbers are the numbers.  There is no emotion involved in determining the price of something someone thinks has great sound compared to something else.  I simply record what comes across my radar.

 

I've sent out hundreds of copies of the spreadsheet and it's a help to most people because if a person hasn't been following speaker prices for years, it's hard to know what a fair market price is.  They can research prior sales and compare condition, age, upgrades and geographical area and make an informed decision. 

 

Dave, you said you sold your last highly modded Chorus for $1200 but what did you pay for them?  Not $1200 I would guess.  B)

I normally pay 7 to 800 PLUS the drive. Funny you mention the last one since it was the cheapest one ever and such an outlier it does not count. The one before that was a Chorus I and I paid $800 for it and it sold for $1200.

 

  I appreciate what you are trying to do but it is area and time frame dependent and I don't know how you would allow for that. I have to pass most of what I see up because there is no space left for me to drive and buy and fix and sell. In some ways your selling price list is irrelevant to what I do since speakers I sell have been gone through and crossovers upgraded and my tweeters added so they are different than others you have data for. In the last year the number of vintage Klipsch I have found to buy has dropped by half and out of that only some are worthwhile. It is one of the reasons I moved to Pro gear and that is quickly becoming hard to do too.

 

  Perhaps the best way to look at your list and an accurate way to describe what it does is to say it is  an average of prices over x number of years and may not be accurate for today nor in all places. It is however as you say a staring point to begin research with.

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1 hour ago, Dave A said:

I normally pay 7 to 800 PLUS the drive. Funny you mention the last one since it was the cheapest one ever and such an outlier it does not count. The one before that was a Chorus I and I paid $800 for it and it sold for $1200.

I'm not sure what you mean by the cheapest one ever, Ch1 or Ch2?  What cell are you referring to?  I'm not cherry picking numbers, and it's possible the version you're looking at is not as up-to-date as mine since I update it almost daily. 

 

You are an authority on Chorus and upgrading them and I value your opinion highly.  In my spreadsheet I note those with a + sign, meaning upgraded, value added.  For speakers highly upgraded I uses two ++ signs and they are noted, but the numbers are not included in the numerical average because they are not comparable.

 

I didn't quote this part of your post, but you are 100% correct that prices vary by area.  For instance Chicagoland and Florida there is a good supply of Klipsch and prices tend to be lower.  If you live in California or Texas prices then tend to be higher than anywhere else.  For Texas if you find something and check my spreadsheet for average prices I would expect a normal selling price to be about 20% higher.  I've come to that by conversations with people from those areas who help me understand the local market.

 

At least you can find used Chorus where you live.  I'm from West Virginia where we virtually don't have any used Klipsch, and EVERYTHING is a road trip!  :lol:

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