ricktate Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Audible Nectar said: Belles DID use the AA network originally. I have a set of Crites crossovers (motor run style, from when those were still available) and have played with the A/AA swapover. AAs won handily to my ears. Hence the move to the V-Cap OIMP AA build. I've been playing with the resistor mod to knock down the midrange 3db, and like the result of that, too. Might move to the 6.8uf in place of the 13 to make that change permanent. Maybe this is wrong....but its been there a long time. In around 1983, we have the crossovers for the Klipschorn, LaScala, and Belle Klipsch becoming separate designs. We have the AK for the Klipschorn, the AL for the LaScala and the AB for the Belle Klipsch. At that point also, the Klipschorn crossover became a two section crossover with the woofer section mounted inside the woofer door. We do not build the AK, AL, or AB crossovers since they are generally considered to be "not the best". By around 1989, the design of these crossovers had changed (evolved) to the AK-3, AL-3 and AB-2 crossovers. We do build those. Looks like the Belle had different one in 83. Looks like a Belle to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 3 hours ago, ricktate said: Maybe this is wrong....but its been there a long time. In around 1983, we have the crossovers for the Klipschorn, LaScala, and Belle Klipsch becoming separate designs. We have the AK for the Klipschorn, the AL for the LaScala and the AB for the Belle Klipsch. At that point also, the Klipschorn crossover became a two section crossover with the woofer section mounted inside the woofer door. We do not build the AK, AL, or AB crossovers since they are generally considered to be "not the best". By around 1989, the design of these crossovers had changed (evolved) to the AK-3, AL-3 and AB-2 crossovers. We do build those. Looks like the Belle had different one in 83. Looks like a Belle to me. The Belle went into production in 71 or 72, with the K77V and the K55V which used the AA network. In the early 80's the drivers changed as the manufacturers of the drivers went away from AlNiCo (South African politics, cobalt was largely mined in South Africa) to the K55M and K77M (ceramic) drivers, which used the crossover you show here. So much like the other Heritage, the era in which the speaker was built would determine the precise network Klipsch used, but the Belle at initial release used a type AA, which many people use here to this day, especially with the solder terminal midrange K55 being so popular, making it a natural, and simple network to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 The parts all got delivered, both the woofers and the tweeters, so as soon as I come up for air on the exterior and basement remodeling prep I'll get this stuff installed and give my facelifted Belles a go 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 Got the tweeters and the woofers installed. Tweeters wasn't "drop in" - these required quite a bit of filing of the motorboards to get them to pop in, which was a challenge and an exercise in patience to be sure, but these tweeters are legit. Very extended without being piercing/irritating, gives very nice "air" with sweet, fast, and natural sound. I like !!!! The woofers (Eminence Kappa 15C) presented their own challenge - in addition to the extra gasket I had a woofer quit an hour into the first listening session 😨 Turned out that one of the leads shook itself off (thought I had that covered but missed checking that detail somehow on one of the leads) but WOW are these woofers good. More punch and a tighter bass, as well as more coherency in the midrange. I don't think they suffer in the depth department, either, I just think the tighter presentation and "boot in the chest" makes one focus on that aspect of their sound but I think these are a real hit. And at very reasonable cost, too. It's amazing how much "action" exists sonically in the woofers, not only the bass but so much of the midrange content is here, making them a really important and probably too overlooked part of the system. What I like most is that I've not moved so much away from the Klipsch sound that my speakers are no longer "Klipsch", just a more refined product. These are two reasonably priced upgrades that have been on my radar for some time, particularly for the 2 channel rig, and both achieved the desired results. This, combined with the AA modification to knock down the midrange 3db has the system in balance the way I think an accurate 2 channel rig should be. Once I get the new (to me) preamp here the 2 channel system should be in stasis for the foreseeable future, short of a tube roll or two (and I'm not sure I'll need to do much of that either as I have a good idea where that's going as well). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 did you get the Kappa from parts express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 24 minutes ago, Budman said: did you get the Kappa from parts express. Yes. Bought a pair for $260, they DO need another gasket or plywood surround made with a router (best method) to keep the woofer from slapping against the motorboard, as the gasket layer isn't as think as a Klipsch woofer like the K33 would have. There's a BUNCH of commentary on this around the forum, it's been no secret as to it's relative success, which is why I've had it in my list of upgrades for so long. Claude has posted graphs and all sorts of stuff on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 The tweeters were hard to put in? Interesting. Mine dropped right in without an issue. The Belle grills are the only thing that are original Belle on mine. Maybe 1978 range models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, avguytx said: The tweeters were hard to put in? Interesting. Mine dropped right in without an issue. The Belle grills are the only thing that are original Belle on mine. Maybe 1978 range models. They were not drop ins. The tweeter hole was about 1/16 of an inch, maybe 3/32 too narrow, had to file the opening to make them fit. Initial listening tests would indicate that they were worth the hassle, however. Apparently this is an issue on earlier models before CNC machines made the hole sizes absolutely consistent and perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Dave's motorboard was pre-cnc and dates from I think 1976. There have been some cases where these were not cut to full size or with tapers on the side wall front to back. One was a KHorn and then this one which was a Belle. Those guys did not have to worry about anything actually fitting in the holes so they got sloppy at times. I have also had to sand those holes on a set of LSI's one time but in general your chances of having to remove this much material is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I have never compared using a 6.8uF to the resistor mod, nor have I ever received any feedback regarding the difference. I would say if you like what you're hearing - just stay put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 7, 2019 Author Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Deang said: A worthwhile effort - the b&c 120e drives the k-77 into permanent obselance. 3 hours ago, Deang said: I have never compared using a 6.8uF to the resistor mod, nor have I ever received any feedback regarding the difference. I would say if you like what you're hearing - just stay put. Understood on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedLimit Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 Please, could you tell me which horn you use with the de120 driver ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 @SpeedLimit You haven’t been here in a while. This section isn’t the old odds and mods you remember. Head over to AK forums if you want to talk mods. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 …I just sent him a PM, lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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