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erik2A3

Thoughts on my Designer La Scalas and KLF 20s/30s

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After much reading and research on the KLF 20 and 30 series, I am seriously considering selling my La Scalas, or, ideally, as part of a possible trade for either of the Klipsch Legend speakers mentioned.  I am in southern AZ, and wanted to post this message with the thought, however remote (or maybe not so remote), that there might be an owner of KLF 20s or 30s who is possibly  pondering moving to La  Scalas.  Mine are Designer LSBR, unstained with clear finish.  They are very clean, and 100% original.  Type AA networks.  So, if there are any AZ Klipsch Legend owners out there who might be interested , please let me know!

 

 

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Pictures help OP.

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You may be sorry you sold your Scalas.  I don't have a lot of "listening" under my belt. I just see that sentiment expressed....often 

 

Do get the KLF 20 or 30s. Keep them all.

 

that being said... how much?    and where are you located? and pics. 

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"Designer" La Scalas:  Yeah, I asked the same question a long time ago when I first saw them.  They're really just the LSs with 1/4 round trim around tweeter and squawker section, and a grille frame with Klipsch logo very similar to those used on Heresies.  There was another similar pair here in Garage Sale of the same type but different grille cloth.

 

Pictures:  Definitely.  I had meant to post this earlier in the day, and didn't get to it until late last night.  I still have some other things I need to do today before I can get to that.

 

Price: $1,500 (Firm)

 

Regret:  I really do appreciate you mentioning that WillyBob.  Another forum member said the same.  And I know there is that possibility.  These are my third pair, after selling our Klipschorns (I MISS those very much, but just don't have the right space for them).

 

My reason for thinking of selling:  I have a couple of other pair of full-range single driver horn systems that I like equally well, and want to use them in the same rooms where we have the La Scalas.  The amps I've built are mostly low output power single-ended-triodes, and I couple of OTL amps from Transcendent Sound.  I know that LS 20s/30s generally have an emphasized midrange and HF response, which is how I also prefer the LSs.  I've built a number of crossovers that have a very subtle attenuation of the midrange horn, do NOT use an auto-former or fixed or variable attenuation, and true band-pass network, 6dB/octave slope with my own hand-wound chokes.  I am interested in great LF response that is provided by the L/R stereo speaker pair rather than our single subwoofer.  Yes, I've considered stereo subs, but just don't have the space.  The KLFs will be able to give both high input sensitivity and high efficiency, though they will be down a few dBs from the La Scalas (which, as you know, can fill an auditorium, without distortion, fairly easily).  The beautiful La Scalas probably laugh at the tiny diet they are fed from our amps ;)  Besides, the KLFs, with an efficiency of 100dBs, are still extraordinarily high, and possess both the forward midrange that I need AND the low frequency response I want for classical music (organ pedals, double bass,), as well as of course very low notes present in other genres as well.  I have an Al Dimeloa album that has tremendously low frequency info., particularly on a piece called "Sanctuary" that, while the La Scalas are amazingly flawless above 60 Hz or so (as an approximate).

 

What I will miss is the architectural and sculptural-industrial design aesthetics (sorry, I'm an art and art history teacher.....or rather was for 30 years.  Not teaching now do to severe back problems and, ugh, getting ready for a 6th surgery).  I first saw them in the band room of a high school I taught at a long time ago.  It was really a love at first site sort of thing, and I knew I would have to have a pair.  And, quite honestly, the style I want and will be watching for as I put away my pennies, are either the ones with just a motor board and open back (the name of that style escapes me now), or the first ones I saw, which are generally the most common, and don't have a grille or frame around the exposed mid and HF horns.  In other words, this is not for good.  We are always able to make changes, which is my consolation.  I know I will miss them at times.  Of course there is no way I will ship them, but will drive to meet someone within a couple hundred miles or so.  Even that's too far for my tired back.  Those of you with painful spines understand.

 

So!  Pictures to come in the near future

 

edit:  I'm in Tucson

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I am not sure that I understand why you want to switch from what you love (the LaScala) to the KLF20or KLF30? I am going to assume that size is the issue? The KLF20/30 are not as efficient a the factory numbers suggest and they will not provide anywhere near the same output levels with small set amps as your LaScala will then there is the issue of dynamics ant that won't match the LaScala either. So far as amps go you will need at a minimum a very solid 40 -50 watts per channel. Your new amp will need to be able to provide lots of power into lower impedance loads. A good rule of thumb is that it should double in watts out each time you cut the load impedance in half. I have found that running dual stereo blocks is the easiest and least expensive way to get good performance, running one stereo block per loudspeaker cabinet so for example the rt channel of the first stereo block is used to power the woofers and the left channel to the mid/tweeter in the same speaker cabinet. The second stereo block is used to power the remaining channel loudspeaker in the same way. This way you are insured the gain of all the channels match. Having a couple of stereo amplifiers is very convenient and can be a blessing if you ever have one amp go down, you can pull that amp and reconfigure your set up to run the system on just one stereo amp while the broken amp is out for repair.  

   Just to reiterate you are not going to make a pair of KLF30 (and a KLF20 will require a little more) to replace your LaScala. Running the KLF20/30 on 9 watt 300B Set amps is just not going to work.

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Best thing I can think of doing...

get the KLF30's... Listen to them. See if they do what you want. Then, if you want to sell the LaScalas.... 

 

you are tempting me. I'm only 60 mile from downtown

My wife would shoot me. She likes the ones I have... I bet she just saying that...

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@moray james, if you are going to provide the negatives of the KLF-20 or 30, you should also provide him with the fact that he will no longer need the sub or pair of subs to reach the same low notes. Nothing wrong with La Scalas for most music but for hard rock, rap, pop, etc with low bass and dynamics the KLF will provide a better and well rounded range...not to mention take up half the space as the La Scalas and subs.

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KEEP THE LA SCALA'S!!---Get a small, but DEEP performing Subwoofer to fill in the lower octaves.

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erik2A3,

 

What happened with your, “Free of charge: Pair very nice backloaded horns” ? You and I were personal messaging and I wrote you I’d take them then you stopped replying. Did you decide to keep them after your offer?

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2 hours ago, teaman said:

@moray james, if you are going to provide the negatives of the KLF-20 or 30, you should also provide him with the fact that he will no longer need the sub or pair of subs to reach the same low notes. Nothing wrong with La Scalas for most music but for hard rock, rap, pop, etc with low bass and dynamics the KLF will provide a better and well rounded range...not to mention take up half the space as the La Scalas and subs.

if he has a sub(s) he can decide to use them with the KLF or not, it's not an issue and the OP is aware that both the KLF20 and 30 play much lower than his LaScala do. I was not trying to paint the KLF20/30 in a bad light (I have owned three pair of KLF20 and have a pair now myself) but rather to show them more clearly for what they are and what they can do. I agree they are two of the finest home speakers Klipsch has made ever and they really only give way to the big heritage in terms of output level and dynamics. LaScala with a pair of subs would be excellent but it would seem that space is an issue for the OP and I did ask about that in particular. From reading it would seem that the KLF30 was an attempt to go head to head with the Khorn all be it with much lower efficiency in a domestically acceptable size format and at a much reduced weight and cost point while maintaining much of the Heritage speaker's characteristic sound. I hope that makes clear my comments which were not intended to belittle the KLF loudspeakers.

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I gave them away to a guy in California who drove all the way here to pick them up.  That's what happened to them.  If I missed something you sent me, then sincerest apologies.  It would not have been my intention in the least to have just bypassed you.  I was in no position to pack and ship at the time, and even told the guy from California I wasn't going to do that.  He said he was a chiropractor who well understood ailments of the spine, and told me not to worry, and that he would drive to pick them up.  We met, had a coffee, and that was it.  Is your PM working?  This isn't really related to the subject at hand.  In any event, I extend a public apology.  I hope you can accept that.

 

Morayjames:. I have much experience with all electrically related aspects of your email, particulalrly power transfer function as it relates to voice coil empedeance.  I would not be considering this if I weren't aware those things.  I do thank you for mentioning them though.

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MorayJames.  This is NOT an attempt to go, as you put it, head to head with Klipschorns.  Good grief.  I have much more experience than that.  I joined this forum in 2002 under another handle, my name, and have done tremendous amounts of work and experimentation with three pair of La Scalas, four pair of Heresys,  Klipschorns, and so forth - with a great number of amplifiers, some as high as 150 watts a side, and others as low as the one watt OTL that was stunningly good with the Heresies With which I first used them.

 

It's my understanding that the KLFs are a nominal 8 ohm load, for which I am able to rewire some of the secondary windings on the output transformers of my amplifiers.  I also own a Parasound Halo A 23. Which is certainly more than up to the task of driving a pair of KLF 20s or 30s. To uncomfortably loud levels - at least for me.

 

Are you familiar with the impedance curve of the KLFs? It seems that you are, so may I Pleaese ask you what about it would have such a deleterious effect on its performance when connected to an amp that's good for over a hundred watts per channel into 8 ohms?  I have no doubt whatsoever that my 300B amplifier would also be an outstanding match for them.

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24 minutes ago, erik2A3 said:

I gave them away to a guy in California who drove all the way here to pick them up.  That's what happened to them.  If I missed something you sent me, then sincerest apologies.  It would not have been my intention in the least to have just bypassed you.  I was in no position to pack and ship at the time, and even told the guy from California I wasn't going to do that.  He said he was a chiropractor who well understood ailments of the spine, and told me not to worry, and that he would drive to pick them up.  We met, had a coffee, and that was it.  Is your PM working?  This isn't really related to the subject at hand.  In any event, I extend a public apology.  I hope you can accept that.

 

Moray james:. I have much experience with all electrically related aspects of your email, particularly power transfer function as it relates to voice coil impedance.  I would not be considering this if I weren't aware those things.  I do thank you for mentioning them though.

You are most welcome and thank you for your response. I more or less figured you had come up with something you thought would work for you. Lots of people read these threads looking for ideas and info and I did not want someone with a set of LaScala to think a KLF20 or 30 was going to replace them 100% in all aspects of performance especially if they were using small set amps. Everybody has different likes and dislikes so each system has to be designed to meet the needs of the individual. I have not owned the KLF30 but I have had three sets of KLF20 and I find them to be a tad more efficient than both the Forte and the Forte ll so that would put the KLF20 at around 96 db efficient. The KLF30 will be more efficient than the 20's are so a pair of 50 watt per channel stereo blocks set up to drive the speakers in a vertical biamp arrangement can run them that way well enough for most folks. If higher levers are a must then larger amps would get that done.

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Just throwing in my two cents, I find that the KLF 20 and 30 enjoy big power, much along the lines of the RF-7's. The more power you put in them, the better results you get out. That is not the way most Klipsch work but to me they are the exception. I put 500 and 600 watt monoblocks on each of my KLF-30 and they really come to life. Tight bass, great mids and highs, yet not out of balance. My buddy is running 1000 watt monoblocks into his KLF-30 now, up from 300 and told me they have never sounded better. He did in fact blow the backs off of his speakers doing so, but has since braced and reglued the backs and they are back in business. I've never seen anyone drive amps and speakers as hard as he does, so this is not the norm. They do come to life though with anything 250 wpc and up. Enjoy!

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31 minutes ago, erik2A3 said:

MorayJames.  This is NOT an attempt to go, as you put it, head to head with Klipschorns.  Good grief.  I have much more experience than that.  I joined this forum in 2002 under another handle, my name, and have done tremendous amounts of work and experimentation with three pair of La Scalas, four pair of Heresys,  Klipschorns, and so forth - with a great number of amplifiers, some as high as 150 watts a side, and others as low as the one watt OTL that was stunningly good with the Heresies With which I first used them.

 

It's my understanding that the KLFs are a nominal 8 ohm load, for which I am able to rewire some of the secondary windings on the output transformers of my amplifiers.  I also own a Parasound Halo A 23. Which is certainly more than up to the task of driving a pair of KLF 20s or 30s. To uncomfortably loud levels - at least for me.

 

Are you familiar with the impedance curve of the KLFs? It seems that you are, so may I Pleaese ask you what about it would have such a deleterious effect on its performance when connected to an amp that's good for over a hundred watts per channel into 8 ohms?  I have no doubt whatsoever that my 300B amplifier would also be an outstanding match for them.

eric2A3: I do not know why you are responding in such a defensive manner? You are misunderstanding me. I said that I had read that the KLF30 loudspeaker design had been an attempt by Klipsch to build a smaller lighter less expensive loudspeaker which could compete with the Khorn in terms of overall performance. I was not referring to your system when I was making that statement.

   So far as amplifiers I was speaking generically and for the levels that many people would like most 9 watt per channel amps are not going to get the job done running a KLF20. I agree that there are some very good tube amps which can get the job done, I have heard a few, one a SET 2A3 one of the finest amps I have ever heard but none of the ones that did deliver the goods were  inexpensive.

   I am sorry that we seem to be at crossed purposes and I am not looking for an argument. Best of luck with your project.

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