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Chris A

An Unofficial Klipsch Jubilee Buyer's Guide

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47 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Since the overlap between the back of the K-402 and the top of the bass bin mouth is something like 6 inches or less, the bass bin itself really doesn't acoustically see or feel the K-402 overlap about 10" in front of the bass bin mouths.  A quarter wavelength at 500 Hz is 6.7 inches, and the overlap is less than that.  If the overlap were something more like 1/2 to 1 wavelength, then you'd get much more significant acoustic interference. 

 

Chris

Do you have a photo of this??

 

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Here's a shot of Mark's Khorn/K-402s (Jub-Khorns):

Modded K402 Mount Front.jpg

 

...and a somewhat poorer shot of my left Jub with shortened-down K-402:

 

Shortened Jub front small.jpg

 

Askew's Main Rig 16 Feb. 2019.jpg

 

You just remove the two bolts holding the bottom of the K-402 flange, then rotate the whole assembly forward, resting the bottom surface of the horn on top of the bass bin, and sticking out ~10" in front of the bass bin.  I use bricks to hold the back of the K-402 assembly to keep it stationary on top.  I can't describe the improvement in sound (once you use Danley-style crossover filters) the sound quality improvement was as great as swapping out the K-69-As with TAD TD-4002s (I kid you not...).  It's an amazing upgrade in sound quality, IMHO.  It also gets the K-402 down to about 47" off the floor, which is the recommended height for ITU surround sound arrays (i.e., 1.2 m).  My center MEH and the Jubs now are within an inch of each other in height above floor.  The surround sound performance also took a leap upwards because of this little modification (which is of course easily reversible).

 

Chris

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By the way, you do need to increase the HF delay to compensate for the 10" movement forward.  The K-402 seems to "couple" with the bass bin in this position (like multiple entry horns--MEHs) and allows the flattening of the phase even further, as shown on the plot on page 2 of this thread (comparing first order crossover filter phase in the orange trace with the Danley-style crossover phase in red trace). 

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1 hour ago, babadono said:
18 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

 

Unfinished needs to not get recommended to be honest.  Just pretend that one doesn't exist.  

Boo..

Well, since the comment wasn't backed up with any explanation or reasoning, I think you can pretend that it doesn't exist either.

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On 5/17/2019 at 5:09 PM, Chris A said:

By the way, you do need to increase the HF delay to compensate for the 10" movement forward.  The K-402 seems to "couple" with the bass bin in this position (like multiple entry horns--MEHs) and allows the flattening of the phase even further, as shown on the plot on page 2 of this thread (comparing first order crossover filter phase in the orange trace with the Danley-style crossover phase in red trace). 

 

Ok Chris, once again you have piqued my interest. You seem to do that fairly often.

Question: As I do not have the mic or software to measure the delay, then about how much change is required to fine tune the delay value on the K402 driver when the 10 inch length is achieved? Presently using the dx38.

 

Thanks.

Mike

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If I calculated it correctly, it would add 0.000692 seconds to the delay already in the dx38. 

 

I hope someone can check me on this.

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Close enough...

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Thank you Chris.

 

I made the changes.

So much better!

 

I will quote you “it’s an amazing upgrade in sound quality IMHO”. I’m not changing back.

 

 

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Hello everybody!, My name is Sjoerd, i`m from the Netherlands. 

 

i have recently bought me a 2nd hand pair of 3-way KPT 535 B Jubs.

As far as i know i am the only owner in europe to have a pair of 3 way jubs.

 

I bought them with a pair of Werner Jagush passive crossovers (have not used them yet) and an active Apex Intelli-X2 active crossover.

 

Is there a solid reason i should consider to drive them 2 way in stead of 3 way? i only use them for music.

 

between the MF and HF horn there allready is a small passive crossover (from factory?) see pictures below.w2wxmaj8xd.12.21.jpeg9nktdy6.12.17.jpeg

 

at this moment my setup is like this:

 

Bluesound Node 2i streamer/Turntable

Vincent tube preamp

Apex Crossover

MF/HF go to Welbourne Laboratories DRD45 tube monoblocks

LF go to Ayon Orion integrated KT88 tube amp via pre in (using it as a power amp not the integrated part)

 

i get pretty decent sound at this moment, it depens on which music i play.

but i do have the feeling that i am not even half way there.

I have used Khorns (AK5) before the Jubs and even though the jubs sound so much richer and fuller i am not there yet.

 

can you guys provide me with some good tips? wether to use the passive xover or go 2 way or stick to the 3way ?

 

thank you ! and all the best.

 

 

ozryi7dol9.00.46%20(5).jpegqyrsbcd2c162.00.46%20(4).jpegka5qlhlhthl.00.46%20(3).jpegye4v50.00.46%20(2).jpegkum8fr372xp.00.46%20(1).jpegwdbkgy3sypqx.00.46.jpeg

 

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So @OilyBoy is the lucky guy.

 

 

There are a few people on here that run a 3 way Jubilee,  and at least one who has a strong preference for 3 way over 2 way and has explained it.

 

I'm sure you will get many responses,  plus a lot of questions about those passives.

 

Travis

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Yep its me, i came across that topic at the time, the day before i picked them  up, which was allready planned fot a week lol😂

 

Edited by OilyBoy

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8 hours ago, OilyBoy said:

...Is there a solid reason i should consider to drive them 2 way in stead of 3 way? i only use them for music...

...between the MF and HF horn there already is a small passive crossover (from factory?) see pictures below...

If the mid drivers are stamped K-1133 (...they probably are...), then there is a good reason to use the HF horn and driver, since the K-1133 driver is not designed to handle the top-most octave (10-20 kHz).  That small passive crossover is probably from Klipsch for the KPT-Jubilee/535-B configuration:  http://assets.klipsch.com/product-specsheets/KPT-JUBILEE535-B-Data-Sheet-v05.pdf

 

This means that you can bi-amp them using your DSP crossover, or you can bypass the passive crossover and tri-amp them...your choice.  If you tri-amp, then you can time align the HF drivers/horns to the K-402/K-1133 midrange horns.

 

Just remember that the DSP settings from Klipsch assume a fire-through-screen setup, so the HF output will likely be "hot": about 3-6 dB vs. frequency of too much SPL above 8-9 kHz in your listening room without a screen attenuating the highs in front of the HF horn/driver. 

 

You'll probably need to measure them in-room using a calibrated microphone and something like REW to dial them in using your DSP crossover for your listening room.

 

Chris

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I recommend using your DSP crossover (Apex Intelli-X2) in the 96 kHz mode in order to achieve better transparency of the sound quality (if it is actually selectable as the literature says that it is).

 

Chris

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4 hours ago, OilyBoy said:

Yep its me, i came across that topic at the time, the day before i picked them  up, which was allready planned fot a week lol😂

 

Congrats, solid purchase.   

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On 4/18/2019 at 4:06 PM, babadono said:

How do they sound? Dang good. And mine aren't really dialed in completely yet.

They are getting closer now.   Thanks for letting me hear them yesterday man, was a pleasure.  I wish I had more width to my room, I would absolutely buy a pair.  I didn't read through the whole thread.... But, @Chris A, what do you speculate that a minimum acceptable width between the speakers would be?   How about listening distance?   The dynamics on these things are UNREAL. 

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47 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I wish I had more width to my room, I would absolutely buy a pair.  I didn't read through the whole thread.... But, @Chris A, what do you speculate that a minimum acceptable width between the speakers would be?   How about listening distance?   The dynamics on these things are UNREAL. 

Unlike Khorns, two-way Jubilees have a minimum listening distance that can be measured in inches instead of 10s of feet.  They actually excel in very small rooms. The only limitation is the vertical separation of the K-402 to the KPT-KHJ-LF bass bins (and if you consider K-402-MEHs instead, there is no minimum listening distance).  Most folks considering Jubilees or Khorns really don't understand that the source of "minimum listening distance" issues are related to time alignment/vertical alignment issues.  If you collapse the alignments down to near zero, the minimum listening distances also go to zero. 

 

So to answer your first question--minimum width: you can have the Jubilee bass bins touching each other on their inside edges and still have a viable listening arrangement in width (really, no kidding).  The only concern is horizontal separation to hear a stereo phantom center, and that information is published in many places on the web, etc. for "best loudspeaker placement".  The closer together the bass bins get, the more they tend to couple at midbass and lower frequencies (a good thing for deepening the bass response and reducing the drive levels from your amplifiers--which is already in the few tenths of a watt for most music tracks), while the midrange frequencies will still form a stereo phantom center easily due to the  shorter wavelengths involved.

 

My experience has been to keep the minimum listening distance from the front edge of the K-402s/bass bins at 6 feet to accommodate the vertical separation of the K-402 horn axis to the centroid of the bass bins. If you lower the K-402s to overhang a little of the front of the bass bins (~10 inches in front of the bass bins), the minimum listening distance becomes even shorter--probably on the order of 3-4 feet if you're sitting with your ears at ~40-42 inches above the floor.

 

You might think that I'm exaggerating.  I can assure you that I'm not.  Remember that you can put your head inside of a "synergy" MEH loudspeaker and still hear the full range of sound with your head inside the aperture of the horn.

 

At some point the closeness of the back wall will begin to create its own issues with early reflections from behind the listener, so you'll have to deal with those issues if you've got a very tiny room...by providing broad band absorption on the back wall.  But two-way Jubilees will actually outperform almost any other loudspeaker in a very small listening space--believe it or not.  Full-range controlled directivity is key to understanding the "why".

 

Chris

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Chris, your comments and description of minimum spacing and listening distance are spot-on. This has been my experience as well over the last 12 years.

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@Chris A, thanks for that detailed explanation. Phantom center is important to me.   I'm sure I can dial things in with REW and the xilica.   Stupid question and I could search... But what is a 402 MEH?   I can guess MEH stands for multi entry horn?   Are we talking a LA danley design?   If this a DIY type of project?  I heard Eric's jubilees yesterday and really liked what I heard despite them being a work in progress. We roughed the setup quickly and did plenty of experimenting and more importantly, listening.  I have exactly 11.5' width from side wall to island in the middle of the living room/kitchen.  I am 12.5' from back wall to fixed couch listening position.   I guess my main concern was trying to see if a pair might be feasible in my room.... If I was to get a pair, no way I could fit a sub anywhere either... 

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1 hour ago, Westcoastdrums said:

But what is a 402 MEH?

Info is here:

 

But you're asking about Jubilee performance (not MEHs/"Synergies"), and the only physical difference between the K-402-MEH and the Jubilee is the separate bass bins below the K-402s.  This is the only reason why you have a minimum listening distance, but note that almost any "tower" loudspeaker will also have this issue at a similar level.

 

1 hour ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I heard Eric's jubilees yesterday and really liked what I heard despite them being a work in progress.

...and they can get significantly better, believe it or not, if my experience this past spring is any guide (depending of course on the type of music that you listen to).  This is after listening to a pair virtually every day for 12 years. 

 

1 hour ago, Westcoastdrums said:

I have exactly 11.5' width from side wall to island in the middle of the living room/kitchen.  I am 12.5' from back wall to fixed couch listening position.   I guess my main concern was trying to see if a pair might be feasible in my room...

Your listening position distance sounds good.  It all sounds feasible, but pictures certainly can help with identifying any concerns not yet discussed.

 

Chris

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Can somebody please upload a picture of their KPT 535B MF and HF drivers? i cant find any stamps in or on mine. 

 

 

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