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oldtimer

Tragic

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2 hours ago, HDBRbuilder said:

I don't use the media for my info...about what is going on in that part of the world...

Well...I was just pointing out you seem to share the same conspiracy POV as the ones I mentioned. Anyway,if what you say is true we live in the Information age and the truth will come out in the end. Btw, I was less than 1,000 miles away from Moscow during the Cuban Missile Crisis  outside of Istanbul, Turkey and spent the years 1968 to 1972 outside of Bonn, Germany in Bad Godesberg. I spent weeks and months on end traveling Europe from 1986 to 2003 and shared those stories on here in the past so I can dig reminiscing about old time. :) 

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1 hour ago, K5SS said:

 

CNN? Haha

I don't understand what's so funny about CNN but in case you missed it, FoxNews seems to be reporting pretty much the same thing and no one is talking about arson.

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I feel a thread lock coming.  Opinion based news, well, sucks.  It's all about the impact, whether truthful or not.  Give me Mr. Cronkite any day.  Straight faced, just the facts please.  More than likely the fire was an accident.  If not, let the 'truth' be told.

 

walter-cronkite-cbs-news.jpg.67fbac2bc0745cd6945311bdd38720c7.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, ACV92 said:

I feel a thread lock coming.  Opinion based news, well, sucks.  It's all about the impact, whether truthful or not.  Give me Mr. Cronkite any day.  Straight faced, just the facts please.  More than likely the fire was an accident.  If not, let the 'truth' be told.

I liked Cronkite but we can gather more facts on our personal computers and tablets in an hour than he could in several days...That said, I agree about factbased discussions and why I distain these politically driven conspiracy theories. Fwiw, those can be easily debunked using factual sources as well.

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I feel a thread lock coming.  Opinion based news, well, sucks.  It's all about the impact, whether truthful or not.  Give me Mr. Cronkite any day.  Straight faced, just the facts please.  More than likely the fire was an accident.  If not, let the 'truth' be told.
 
walter-cronkite-cbs-news.jpg.67fbac2bc0745cd6945311bdd38720c7.jpg
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I agree with you, however the fact that France fears a civil war due to the continued division within its borders, we may never know the truth regardless.


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6 minutes ago, teaman said:

I agree with you, however the fact that France fears a civil war due to the continued division within its borders, we may never know the truth regardless.

If official report are that a welder's torch set off the fire will you believe it?

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7 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

I liked Cronkite but we can gather more facts on our personal computers and tablets in an hour than he could in several days...That said, I agree about factbased discussions and why I distain these politically driven conspiracy theories. Fwiw, those can be easily debunked using factual sources as well.

But, it's the validity of the information that we're delving into, what is factual, and what constitutes the decision to denote it as such?  Too many people take it all at face value, don't discern, and generally want to run with the drama.  I'm not pointing a finger, just speaking of the masses.  We all just need to have a little more patience.  That's what we did back in the day, wait for the facts to come out.  We're too quick to judge anymore.

 

11 minutes ago, teaman said:


I agree with you, however the fact that France fears a civil war due to the continued division within its borders, we may never know the truth regardless.


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Absolutely true.  We may never know the real reason.  Regardless, it is Tragic.  Art, workmanship, a long standing piece of history has just been ruined.  Civil war, war itself, is always around the corner.  The division between the left and right here have people whispering about it.  We continue to operate at odds with each other and get nothing accomplished.  It's deep left or deep right, there's no middle ground.  I just like policy that helps everyone.

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On 4/15/2019 at 1:32 PM, JohnJ said:

No way to re-build something of that big a scale of magnificence. 

 

The walls appear to be intact and unharmed, wood can be rebuilt even better than as new, (minus the character and soul of the original structure) so long as a set of architecturals exist. And for a historical building of this magnitude,  I'm quite certain there are detailed archives of this structure....... but it's still a sad day.

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3 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

 

The walls appear to be intact and unharmed, wood can be rebuilt even better than as new, (minus the character and soul of the original structure) so long as a set of architecturals exist. And for a historical building of this magnitude,  I'm quite certain there are detailed archives of this structure....... but it's still a sad day.

Yeah, I agree.  Unfortunately, even if they can replicate it, it will never be the same.  The echoes captured in the walls, ceiling, the ability to look at the accoutrements and realize that someone worked on that hundreds of years ago is somewhat lost.  Fire just takes what it wants.

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Whatever the outcome, it was a beautiful historic building and I hope they can bring it back. I fear that the brick walls were compromised though with the heat. Time will tell.

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2 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

Well...I was just pointing out you seem to share the same conspiracy POV as the ones I mentioned. Anyway,if what you say is true we live in the Information age and the truth will come out in the end. Btw, I was less than 1,000 miles away from Moscow during the Cuban Missile Crisis  outside of Istanbul, Turkey and spent the years 1968 to 1972 outside of Bonn, Germany in Bad Godesberg. I spent weeks and months on end traveling Europe from 1986 to 2003 and shared those stories on here in the past so I can dig reminiscing about old time. :) 

Then maybe you heard of AMF...Allied-Command-Europe Mobile Force (Land) and have a little "Clue" as to what our primary Sacrificial Fulda Gap mission was???...and how close each para element involved was to each of its other "brother" elements....as teams and individuals???...as NATO's "sacrificial lambs"???...and all the joint missions which were constantly being practiced together???...and how close many of us STILL ARE to each other???...and how we will NEVER bullchit each other??? EVER???...and how each day still alive was a day to be treasured???????...when your Fulda Gap mission would have you ALL dead or dying within the first 16 hours of jumping out of an aircraft???????  Sure you do!

 

BTW...FYI...if any NATO paratrooper or commando wore THIS badge on their dress uniforms, and I wore one for over THREE YEARS!!...then THEY were the Fulda Gap sacrificial lambs:

1603895812_AMFbadge.jpg.9066e755c242fb43714c1c7054ad763e.jpg

 

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41 minutes ago, ACV92 said:

I feel a thread lock coming. 

 

LOL, it don't take long once those shoeflies start buzzing their tune.  😂

 

Let'r Rip

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3 hours ago, Zen Traveler said:

I don't understand what's so funny about CNN but in case you missed it, FoxNews seems to be reporting pretty much the same thing and no one is talking about arson.

 

Sorry, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC? Haha

 

I am not the type to jump conclusions so I also don’t believe this is arson or a terrorist attack either. Construction accidents happen all the time, especially in buildings that are perpetually under construction.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, K5SS said:

Construction accidents happen all the time

 

No!!! Say it isn't so. 

 

 

 

 

SJMC 10flr Fire Inspection-2.JPG

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1 hour ago, Gilbert said:

so long as a set of architecturals exist.

3D digitized to incredible accuracy several years ago. Better than architecturals. Sometimes we are prepared, and this is one of them. She can be duplicated in every aspect. However, she can be improved with what we've learned in the past 1000 years so she lasts another thousand or more with much less worry. Sad to lose those ancient timbers, but modern ones can be treated against fire, imbued with fire suppression equipment that cannot be seen, and sensors that tell us what's going on the moment anything changes. And this can be done in ways that cannot be seen from the floor. 

 

As  to those getting into OT areas STOP. Just stick with Notre Dame. There are no politics involved here or national issues, only human ones that have nothing to do with race, religion, political orientation, gender, national origin, or ANY of those things. If you don't recognize World Heritage, simply stay away. Nothing to see here.

 

Dave

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Lots of good brains here. Discuss amongst yourselves. It was stated that aerial water or chemical bombardment wasn't possible due to the weight of the stuff.

 

What about carbon tetrachloride? Lighter than water, incredible fire suppression abilities, and reasonably safe. 

 

Dave

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Thought further. Halon would be better. Yes, banned due to ozone depletion but I think we'd all trade a bit of ozone for a St. Pauls, a Notre Dame, or the US Capitol. Delivery means would need to be developed to get it to the right places but that's probably not all that hard. Just a matter of how many pieces of our inheritance we are willing to lose before we are willing to take steps to fight. 

Dave

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Knowledgeable people yesterday said that a lot of time will be spent just to thoroughly screen the status.

Restoration itself could last for 20 years. An initial offer from a German company was made which recently restored one big cathedral in Germany. This was the shortest - only 10 years for restoration. Firemen responded very quickly but they used water, which ruined the hot stone inside the cathedral more than some other means for fighting against fire.

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38 minutes ago, Mallette said:

Thought further. Halon would be better. Yes, banned due to ozone depletion but I think we'd all trade a bit of ozone for a St. Pauls, a Notre Dame, or the US Capitol. Delivery means would need to be developed to get it to the right places but that's probably not all that hard. Just a matter of how many pieces of our inheritance we are willing to lose before we are willing to take steps to fight. 

Dave

YES!!!...HALON, baby...HALON!!!  You don't NEED to get it TO anywhere...you just install the systems!!  TOO EASY!!!  I helped install some systems decades ago!  Many government buildings and landmarks STILL have the old systems...all around the planet!...they just need to be checked out for functionality, and ensure the halon "bombs" are charged!...like checking the fire extinguishers in a building!  SOME countries never did ban it...so they are already good to go!  Other countries banned it, but made exceptions….to the ban!  What REALLY led to the ban was the popularity of Halon systems in HOMES...which severely INCREASED the possibility of ozone depletion issues, to begin with!

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The reason scientists were worried about the ozone layer is it prevents the Earth's oceans from evaporating into space, kind of like what happened to Mars.

JJK

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