joessportster Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Ok...........Recently Acquired an amp that uses either 45 or 2a3, It came with pairs of each and a pair of 46 tubes with adapters that convert to 4 pin 45. So whats the benefit ? I personally dont hear much difference in a cursory listen. I have not spent much time comparing but history has shown me if I dont hear an almost immediate difference I wont later hear any difference of significance. The guy that sold the amp stated the 46 was the best option. I understand we all hear things differently and my ears suffer from years of abuse so I am likely pissing up a rope, But curiosity kills me so I ask. I know I prefer 45 over 2a3. Anyone have an opinion ? Next I can find ZERO information on the adapters, I know they are vintage adapters as they are labeled ZENITH. Any info would help. I will likely try trading the 2a3 and the 46 with adapters for a pair or 2 of 45's. Any info would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Which amp, Joe? SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, ssh said: Which amp, Joe? SSH Its a Waamamp.............Got it used, It sounds decent though has a hum I have to work out. It does have hum pots (or at least I think they are ) they do quiet it down but a minor hum remains, though on my speakers its not a real issue (96db). On Klipsch or ? at 100 + db I suspect it may be an issue. Of course the Hum may be ground loop or ? I have not had a chance to fiddle with all the normal suspects yet http://www.waamamps.com/waamampsstereotubeamplifiers.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Beautiful amps. Good luck tracing the hum. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 The 46 has 2 grids, hence the need for an adapter. Operating parameters are not the same as for a 45 so some difference in output power and distortion can be expected. Also, the 46 draws a bit more filament current so the power transformer could run slightly warmer. I don’t see it being a big deal either way. As for the hum, it would not be unusual if the filaments are running on AC. Can you post a picture of the underside? Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 17, 2019 Author Share Posted April 17, 2019 On 4/17/2019 at 5:32 PM, tube fanatic said: The 46 has 2 grids, hence the need for an adapter. Operating parameters are not the same as for a 45 so some difference in output power and distortion can be expected. Also, the 46 draws a bit more filament current so the power transformer could run slightly warmer. I don’t see it being a big deal either way. As for the hum, it would not be unusual if the filaments are running on AC. Can you post a picture of the underside? Maynard Here you Go Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 You prefer 45 over 2a3 in your set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Schu said: You prefer 45 over 2a3 in your set up? Yes, Though I cant verbalize my reasoning, I simply prefer the sound. Now this does not mean it will or has replaced my Aric EL84. I simply got a decent deal, I have been interested in the Waamamps qualities and thought why not 5 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: I will relate my Type 45 and Type 46 story. *** * I think you should use 46s as the builder suggests. **** Interesting take on things. The builder does not advocate the 46, (The Previous owner thought it best) Im still searching out the alternate tube discussed for the ARIC. So to bypass the Volume Pot all 1 need do is pull the pot and place a resistor on the pots 2 leads ? What size resister ? What would be a good brand / type ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Correct on the replacing pot with a fixed high quality resistor. My favorite place to order that R has a $25.00 Minimum Order and a $8.00 shipping fee, so if you PM me, and include your shipping address. I'll mail you a pair of my favorite sounding input-to-ground Rs within 24 hours. Just PayPal me at my email address one dollar to cover shipping costs. Nicer, easier, than $33.00. What is the value of that Pot, can you read or Ohmiate it, and what is the first tube type used, so I can choose a decent R-value for that Joe??? There exists a diode action between the Pot's. resistive element and swinging arm's contact point, which is an unwanted degrade that needs to go. Especially if you already have a way of controlling the volume, prior to the amp. Should I mail you two tubes to hear, as a loan ??? I have em, NOS. Jeffrey Very Nice offer but I hate borrowing anything, I dont like the responsibility I feel. (I wont even borrow from family) now if you want to sell a pair I would take you up on that As far as the resistor goes I am not set on how I will use the amp. I am pretty much convinced I will use it in the bedroom where I will need the Volume control. I have some back loaded horns in there for low level listening at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Fine, PM me and we will exchange phone numbers, etc etc. I have extras Joe.. JM Done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Joe, In my opinion just stick with really good 45 tubes and let the dust settle. I tried 300B's, 2A3's, 50's, and 46 tubes and none sounded as good as the 45 EML solid plates in my ststem!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 4 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Cool post. Sure, an EML tube is really really well made, !! In a class of its own. A question comes to mind. Were the other tubes you tried, such as that 2A3 and a 300B, also EMLs? If not, then the comparison is skewed - due to a typical EML's superb / superior construction. Please let us all know. Would like to find out as asked, what you were really comparing. Thanks . What I was really comparing was the sounds I was hear coming from my system, and as I said before my system with the 45 EML solid plate tubes was much the best!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Has anyone tried measuring voltages when swapping between these tube brands? I have to suspect that there are large differences in operating parameters to create such obvious changes in the sound. Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 I can not afford EML anymore the prices on most triodes seems to have sky rocketed. If I had only known Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 3 hours ago, tube fanatic said: Has anyone tried measuring voltages when swapping between these tube brands? I have to suspect that there are large differences in operating parameters to create such obvious changes in the sound. Maynard Maynard do you have any impressions on the build according to the PIC ? Is it direct heated ? and are there any changes that can be made to improve the circuit, Loose the minor hum ? I put the amp on my Bedroom setup with the Madisound BK16 using the Fostex 168e Sigma Drivers and it sounds superb with a pc as source (No external DAC) I even have to eat my words as the 2a3 does add some weight. I suspect it is the higher output Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The PIC was resized smaller, but it appears to be directly heated. I'm guessing the 2.5 filament transformers for the output tubes are positioned right between the driver tube and output tube sockets. The black leads are probably the 115/120 primary leads for each filament transformer. The output tube sockets appear to have green leads from the filament transformers to the filament pins. The should be a center tap lead on each filament transformer secondary, and it more than likely will go to the hum pot. The yellow and blue leads on the output sockets, one is grid, and other should be the primary for the output transformer. I'm just guessing from the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The presence of the hum pot strongly suggests AC filament operation. I sent Wayne an email asking if he would disclose the schematic which would end any speculation about the design but don't know if he considers it proprietary or not. Nothing else to add to Mike's comments above (glad to see you are still around!). Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 5 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Most differences in tubes, are not voltage differences in circuit, but rather, relate to how a Manufacturer does their internal construction, in my opinion. I agree Jeff. However, there would need to be quite a variation from one to another to create definite differences in the sound (such as a very large variance in interelectrode capacitance). Given how simple the tube is, it would seem that there isn't too much variation possible if the original manufacturing parameters are adhered to. Microphonics, of course, are a different issue. If you ever have time to make some measurements I'd enjoy finding out if my theory is correct. Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 I certainly agree that a lot of folks equate sound with price. I suppose to an extent I have been guilty of the same though not nearly to the degree of some. A fixed income and disability will force you out of that mind frame in a hurry. I must admit I am extremely happy with my current setup and in fact I do feel like it out performs many systems I have put together that cost 10 times as much. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said: Joe, Both new amps are simple two stage amps only, aren't they?? This is wonderful, that you are happy. I found a pair of RCA tubes in my stash today, and you have PM. Jeffrey No PM in my inbox ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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