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Pilgrimage 2019 Chief Bonehead chats: LaScala/Jubes

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Why would Klipsch create a super deluxe home version of the Jub?  Given they would be the same sonically,  I wouldn't spend an extra nickel for pretty Jubs over the pro version.  They are huge to be in a home living room in the first place, with a pretty obnoxious sized horn.  Not what very many folks would line up to buy.  Probably an easy decision for Klipsch marketing.

 

Keep making them sound good, keep them sturdy, and keep the price down.............who cares if they are black.  :)

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4 minutes ago, babadono said:

Me:)

For you they make tintable Duratex so what color do you want:biggrin2:

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Cherry:)   .......or Walnut?........  make up my mind.

How much extra could it cost to use veneered plywood instead of what they use now and then just paint black? Leave the top and bottom panels un flush routered so the customer can easily edge band it themselves. Stain(or not), oil or lacquer....done. A beautiful sounding and LOOKING home speaker. Just like @dtel 's 1502.

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This is just my opinion, but I think a dressed-up version of the Jubilee would have to include an attractive enclosure for the 402 horn.  Most people agree that while the 402 sounds great, it doesn’t look great, and its looks would encounter some resistance from the average buyer of expensive speakers.

 

Those enclosures, plus dressing up the bass unit, possibly with high-quality veneer, would add quite a bit to the price of the consumer Jubilee.  As well, the company might want to include a processor, maybe a more basic version of the Xilica, preloaded with the proper EQ settings, so that all the buyer needs to supply is a pair of amplifiers for a nearly normal plug-and-play installation.

 

You can see how this could easily raise the price to $15-20,000.  While the sound could justify the price, the price takes the speaker into a price range that has a limited number of buyers.  Does anyone know why Klipsch discontinued the $20,000 Palladium P-39?  It sounded great, it was beautiful, it was fairly priced.  I seem to recall that it was aimed at buyers who wanted Klipsch, but found the Khorn to be too inexpensive to sit in their living rooms.  Did there turn out to be too few of those buyers?

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6 hours ago, babadono said:

Cherry:)   .......or Walnut?........  make up my mind.

How much extra could it cost to use veneered plywood instead of what they use now and then just paint black? Leave the top and bottom panels un flush routered so the customer can easily edge band it themselves. Stain(or not), oil or lacquer....done. A beautiful sounding and LOOKING home speaker. Just like @dtel 's 1502.

 

It would be fine if they did that.  I just wouldn't pay a dime more for it.  :smile:

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3 minutes ago, mark1101 said:

 

It would be fine if they did that.  I just wouldn't pay a dime more for it.  :smile:

Have to admit I want a monster sound generating device to look like one and not something that meets WAF.  Brown Duratex if you must get fancy. It is all about what does it sound like here.

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8 hours ago, Dave A said:

Have to admit I want a monster sound generating device to look like one and not something that meets WAF.  Brown Duratex if you must get fancy. It is all about what does it sound like here.

 

Check out the style of a Tannoy Westminster if you want to see how a big sound generating device can look like very expensive furniture and dress up nearly any room you put it in.  The Westminsters sound really good, and ooze luxury at the same time.  If Jubilees could look as good as they sound, they’d be beautiful.

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1 hour ago, Islander said:

 

Check out the style of a Tannoy Westminster if you want to see how a big sound generatimg device can look like very expensive furniture and dress up nearly any room you put it in.  The Westminsters sound really good, and ooze luxury at the same time.  If Jubilees could look as good as they sound, they’d be beautiful.

Well I did just check out the Gold version and it is a work of art. I happen to prefer things that sound good and have the money spent applied to that area only. I can appreciate that people want those things I am just not one of them. They have cryogenically treated crossovers too as my eyes roll back in my head.

 

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3 minutes ago, Dave A said:

Well I did just check out the Gold version and it is a work of art. I happen to prefer things that sound good and have the money spent applied to that area only. I can appreciate that people want those things I am just not one of them.

 

 

Fair enough.  As for me, I’m of two minds on this.  When I got the lacquered walnut La Scala IIs, I was happy to put the black-painted, nailed-together, original La Scalas behind the sofa to do surround duty.  The later original Scalas do look better, and I think they’re veneered, but my old 1974s look like I hammered them together in the garage, no matter how good they sound.

 

Even a slightly dressed-up Jubilee, say with grilles on the bass and treble horns and maybe some kind of enclosures on the 402s, would likely sell better than the utility finish ones we usually see, as long as the price difference is relatively small.  After all, wouldn’t you agree that most buyers of the current version of the Jubilee are kind of hard core high performance speaker fans?  That’s cool, but we are a small minority of the larger group of audio/music fans.  Trying to put the regular Jubilee in maybe thousands of living rooms would be a hard sell.  Dressing it up would make it much more appealing to more people.

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37 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

Fair enough.  As for me, I’m of two minds on this.  When I got the lacquered walnut La Scala IIs, I was happy to put the black-painted, nailed-together, original La Scalas behind the sofa to do surround duty.  The later original Scalas do look better, and I think they’re veneered, but my old 1974s look like I hammered them together in the garage, no matter how good they sound.

 

Even a slightly dressed-up Jubilee, say with grilles on the bass and treble horns and maybe some kind of enclosures on the 402s, would likely sell better than the utility finish ones we usually see, as long as the price difference is relatively small.  After all, wouldn’t you agree that most buyers of the current version of the Jubilee are kind of hard core high performance speaker fans?  That’s cool, but we are a small minority of the larger group of audio/music fans.  Trying to put the regular Jubilee in maybe thousands of living rooms would be a hard sell.  Dressing it up would make it much more appealing to more people.

Jubilee buyers are hard core high performance fans and I have no idea if frills would sell more. It's hard to judge the "typical" Klipsch owner when the vast majority if them never comment anywhere about what they bought or why. Look at this forum and you see 30,000+ members and darned few ever show up to voice any opinion on anything. Of the people who do own Jube's here I kind of get the feeling most would rather buy as cheap as possible and then tailor to suit afterwards as hands on tinkerers.

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I am guessing there is not much of a market for Jubs in the home. The pro version is big and too industrial looking for most. A home version (with nice cabinetry etc) would be frightfully expensive (and it would still be huge). 

 

Offering them with a veneer panel on the "baffle" was tried, but quite honestly I am not sure they sold many of them (I don't know the numbers, so I am guessing). 

 

So what are the reasonable alternatives since it is unlikely that the company wants to put another version out there (big price tag and a small demand). At least two come to mind but they both require some DIY skills. 

 

One alternative is to keep the industrial look but do a good job on it. (grills, nicely finished K-402 that is visible, and nice hardwood and nicely finished hardwood baffle). This is what Rigma (and a few others have done) and it can look very good! However, it is still big and the style is not for everyone (although I like the look, many spouses would not). 

 

Another alternative was done by Kudret. The baffle was veneered, probably had grille cloth on the two horn mouths IIRC, and a cabinet for the K-402. Overall the style was similar to a Klipschorn B style cabinet. I thought it worked out well, however it was still a big cabinet and when the top hat gets so big to house the K-402 it looked slightly odd. In a sense, the top hat, compared to a Klipschorn, does not scale up well. There was a awkwardness in how it looked (I liked the look, but it would not be for everyone)

 

A radical alternative (using available materials) is to fabricate a hardwood baffle for the bass bin, fabricate grilles (perhaps like the original prototype that had PWK standing next to it) and substitute a smaller horn in a cabinet (similar to a Klipschorn B style cabinet). 

 

The smaller horn could be a K-510. Let me explain the reasoning. The overall cabinet size (not just foot print) would mimic a Klipschorn (many folks are happy to place that in their living room). The compromise of going to the smaller K-510 horn is not as frightening as it seems. My blanket statements are 1) the K-402 does sound better than the K-510, 2) However, the K-510 horn still sounds pretty darn good, 3) a Jubilee bass bin with a properly crossed K-510 will easily out perform a Klipschorn. I have owned all these combinations. I have also listened to the Jub bass bin out doors (i.e., no ceiling) with either a K-402 or the K-510. Let me testify ..... The version with the K-510 came remarkably close to the K-402 version, in terms of sound quality. It really was surprising how well that little horn did. In retrospect maybe it is not so surprising since the biggest difference is a lack of control of the vertical dispersion until you hit about 1600Hz. Remember this demo eliminated the "ceiling problem" by doing this outdoors. My conclusion is that in your living room, either get a living room with a high ceiling, or a sound absorption / diffraction on the ceiling, or "season" the cross over by dialing down the energy from say 500Hz to 1600Hz (this is "seasoning" and would be less than 2-3 dB - don't get heavy handed).

 

Is this going to sound as good as a K-402 configuration? Of course not. However, it does get "close", and you will have a cabinet that is in the style and spirit of a Klipschorn, and all the parts are available and the DIY facade/veneering is certainly doable.

 

Just thought......

 

Since  folks are willing to put Klipschorns in their living rooms, them this last alternative may be reasonable. I know, I know some will get frightened that DIY is involved and it is not entirely turn key. 

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29 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

So what are the reasonable alternatives since it is unlikely that the company wants to put another version out there (big price tag and a small demand). At least two come to mind but they both require some DIY skills. 

 

How about an assemble-it-yourself flatpack?

 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/100421-wanna-see-how-nice-a-jubilee-can-look/&tab=comments#comment-1096760

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RE: DIY flat pack ...

 

You think they are headed that direction. Dream on. 

 

I was simply thinking of a way to get Jubilee quality in a factory built and configured unit. I am only suggesting some DIY cosmetics (perhaps with the help of a talented friend) and a bit of tweaking. Still costs less than a new Klipschorn.

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42 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

You think they are headed that direction. Dream on. 

 

I was simply thinking of a way to get Jubilee quality in a factory built and configured unit. I am only suggesting some DIY cosmetics (perhaps with the help of a talented friend) and a bit of tweaking. Still costs less than a new Klipschorn.

Way less and you get much more.

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I have said this before and still believe it is true..... To successfully launch the Jubilee as the premier home speaker will require something we have not seen yet, a state-of-the-art hf horn of a size that is between the 402 and the 510. This will overcome the size objections which would limit sales of a 402 design and overcome the performance limitations of pattern control on the 510. Development of an intermediate sized horn probably only makes sense if there is an application on the professional / theater side of the business. We can always hope!

And yes, Klipsch, I would love to see that reality come to pass, and I would buy them for my home!

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31 minutes ago, Bill W. said:

I have said this before and still believe it is true..... To successfully launch the Jubilee as the premier home speaker will require something we have not seen yet, a state-of-the-art hf horn of a size that is between the 402 and the 510. This will overcome the size objections which would limit sales of a 402 design and overcome the performance limitations of pattern control on the 510. Development of an intermediate sized horn probably only makes sense if there is an application on the professional / theater side of the business. We can always hope!

And yes, Klipsch, I would love to see that reality come to pass, and I would buy them for my home!

 

Bill, I agree with you about needing in "in between size horn" in the same design family as the K402/510. We have been saying this for years to no avail. There may not be the market demand to justify the R&D costs etc. 

 

However, since there is not an "in between size horn", then the using the K-510 in Spouse friendly cabinet, is not such a bad idea. It really is a terrific performer (for its size) and it's small enough so there are fewer constraints due to having a "HUGE" cabinet in your living room.

 

Or it may be that I am misguided. Maybe there is not a sufficient audience out there that wants good sound in anything larger than a 2 cubic feet - cabinet.

I really am confused about the realistic and potential market for Klipsch. They still make and sell Klipschorns (I am not sure if it is very many), but the Palladium did not last very long (no idea whether they sold very many of these or whether they even re-couped their development costs). 

 

When I talk to nieces and nephews about stereos (music not HT), they like the sound of my systems. However they could not care less about getting something like that for their own homes. 

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18 minutes ago, PrestonTom said:

When I talk to nieces and nephews about stereos (music not HT), they like the sound of my systems. However they could not care less about getting something like that for their own homes. 

 

But there is hope. When my nephew graduated from college recently, I took him to one of the local high-end shops to teach him the difference between audiophile sound and the Bose system that his friends were trying to foist upon him. He proved to have outstandingly good hearing, and equally discerning taste.

 

One more convert.

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