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gimmeheadroom

Which subwoofer?

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Hi,

 

I have a pair of Klipschs for my main system but I need a subwoofer for a secondary system. It's a Yamaha minisystem driving a pair of JBL Control 5s on stands. The JBLs are really good but lack bass, as expected. It's a good-sized room which is a living room / kitchen open space. The floor is wood veneer, and I have no carpeting. Listening here is mostly midfield and casual.

 

I'm going to eventually upgrade the whole system but will probably keep the Control 5s for this since they fit in the space and I like the sound. The detail on stuff like cymbals and snare brushes is amazing.

 

I live in an apartment building in a country where people are extremely quiet and noise averse. We have laws prohibiting noise during certain hours of days and weekends. The building is fairly solid but there is a big guy upstairs and I hear heel strikes on the floor. So I want to be sure I'm not tormenting my downstairs neighbors. If you have experience that there is no workable subwoofer setup in this kind of situation that would be good to know.

 

The Klipsch R-26Fs I have for my main system are sitting on home-made sandwich of acoustic foam and ceramic floor tiles. I rarely play the system loudly but so far I have no complaints. I can do a similar isolation setup for the subwoofer if I can find floor tiles or blocks big enough. I'd like a front-firing subwoofer with a good amp. My main musical interests are jazz, acoustic, and classic rock. It's a pure 2 channel setup, no home theatre. I strongly dislike ported speakers (I know, the R-26F is ported) so looking for a sealed system.

 

I'm not limited to Klipsch although I'm very happy with the R-26Fs I have. Open to suggestions on any suitable products.

 

Thank you!

 

Edited by gimmeheadroom
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What kind of budget are you working with? Any of SVS's sealed woofers: SB-1000, 2000, 3000 would work well for you I'm sure. You could go dual SB-1000s or SB-2000s so that you don't have to crank up an individual subwoofer and your bass will be less localized and fill your room better compared to a single sub. Look into SVS's isolation feet as well, they screw into the bottom of most subs and reduce vibrations in the floor with their rubbery sound absorbing material.

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Just now, TMatt said:

What kind of budget are you working with? Any of SVS's sealed woofers: SB-1000, 2000, 3000 would work well for you I'm sure. You could go dual SB-1000s or SB-2000s so that you don't have to crank up an individual subwoofer and your bass will be less localized and fill your room better compared to a single sub. Look into SVS's isolation feet as well, they screw into the bottom of most subs and reduce vibrations in the floor with their rubbery sound absorbing material.

 

Thanks, yeah I was looking over the REL and SVS sites this afternoon and I thought the ones you suggested would be good. Looks like we don't have an SVS distributor in Czech Republic so I'll either have to order it from Germany if they will ship here (the site lists only Austria and Germany so not sure) or find it locally somehow.

 

I would like to spend between 500-750 Euros on this, ideally although I could go a bit higher if it made a difference... so dual is out of the question but I appreciate your comment about duals being better in my situation. That sounds very wise and it didn't occur to me.

 

I am kinda not clear on my long-term goals for this system because it's a difficult room. There are heaters and cabinets, windows and doors along most of the walls. I plan to stuff the sub under my work-at-home desk which is in a corner. I cannot think of another possible position in this room because of the way it's laid out.

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27 minutes ago, TMatt said:

I just did a quick search on SVS's distributor page and it looks like these guys sell SVS in CZ. http://www.highend.cz/

 

<facepalm> Thanks, I did see that. But I forgot it quickly for some reason :( I'm home sick with the flu so my brain is not cooperating today.

 

The SB 2000 is $699 on Amazon in America, $1044  USD equivalent at the highend.cz shop :( It's hard being an audiophile in Europe :P

Edited by gimmeheadroom

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Wow that is quite the markup. 😨 Maybe buy one SB-2000 now and if you like it save up for another. I wonder if you call them they might give you a discount, there are dealers here in the U.S. that give significant discounts off MSRP on Klipsch and SVS products. Also, if you're on Facebook join the Klipsch Owners group, there might be people in that group who are located in your country who could help you out, there are about 10,000 members in the group.

Edited by TMatt

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For the R26's I think you'd be VERY happy with the REL T7i or even a T5i. If you can swing it of course.

 

I used to use SVS subs back when I had a full blown B&W HT setup 5-6 years ago. Had a PC-12 NSD. But now that I've tried REL in the last year + I wouldn't want anything else.

 

IMHO they are built better, more solid, higher quality and have the best Wireless (Arrow System) and High Level input method in Subwoofers. That high level input being fed by your amps binding posts will sound much better than the low level on the SB2000. There will be more detail, more bass nuance and just a tighter and cleaner bass tonality over the SVS... afterall its getting the same full bandwidth signal as your mains are.

 

The T series does HT really well too, probably better than low grade ported subs. But the REL T series are more music oriented subs. My main system is a hybrid HiFi Stereo/4CH HT w/ Stereo REL T9is. The T9i's are just incredible. And they only need half volume.

 

I can highly recommend the T7i on a personal level as I own one in my secondary system in my basement. Of course price isn't cheap, and it will be more expensive for you being in Europe.

 

You'd probably be very happy with the T5i also.

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Quote

Wow that is quite the markup. 😨 Maybe buy one SB-2000 now and if you like it save up for another. I wonder if you call them they might give you a discount, there are dealers here in the U.S. that give significant discounts off MSRP on Klipsch and SVS products. Also, if you're on Facebook join the Klipsch Owners group, there might be people in that group who are located in your country who could help you out, there are about 10,000 members in the group.

 

Thanks :)

 

I am antisocial (don't use social media) so I'm not on facebook. But I appreciate your suggestions and thank you for the help!

 

There are some other brands here like Emotiva, Velodyne, etc. which seem to have offerings in similar price ranges. I'll look around further. I have time since I probably won't make the purchase until towards the end of the year.

Edited by gimmeheadroom
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Just now, sixspeed said:

For the R26's I think you'd be VERY happy with the REL T7i or even a T5i. If you can swing it of course.

 

I used to use SVS subs back when I had a full blown B&W HT setup 5-6 years ago. Had a PC-12 NSD. But now that I've tried REL in the last year + I wouldn't want anything else.

 

IMHO they are built better, more solid, higher quality and have the best Wireless (Arrow System) and High Level input method in Subwoofers. That high level input being fed by your amps binding posts will sound much better than the low level on the SB2000. There will be more detail, more bass nuance and just a tighter and cleaner bass tonality over the SVS... afterall its getting the same full bandwidth signal as your mains are.

 

The T series does HT really well too, probably better than low grade ported subs. But the REL T series are more music oriented subs. My main system is a hybrid HiFi Stereo/4CH HT w/ Stereo REL T9is. The T9i's are just incredible. And they only need half volume.

 

I can highly recommend the T7i on a personal level as I own one in my secondary system in my basement. Of course price isn't cheap, and it will be more expensive for you being in Europe.

 

You'd probably be very happy with the T5i also.

 

Hi, thanks for your post! I am also looking into REL but the ones I saw on local sites seem to have down-firing drivers or down-firing passive drivers which I want to avoid. I will look at the ones you mentioned.

 

I get the point about high-level input being superior but the Yamaha minisystem I need this for has a weak amp and is driving JBL Control 5s. The R-26Fs are in another room and the bass is good enough that without a direct comparison to using a sub or not, I'm fine with the way that system sounds. I mentioned them in the post just to point out I have some kind of plan for isolating the sub from the floor and wondering if it will be effective enough. Sorry for any confusion in what I wrote.

 

This is for a secondary system in a room which is far from ideal. I don't think it's worth spending too much on this system. The main point is to reinforce the weak bass since the primary speakers are passive monitors on stands.

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If I was you, and living in a typical European-style apartment complex, I would NOT get a sub-woofer, even moreso if I was NOT on the ground floor!  You MIGHT want to opt for something smaller than normal if you decide to do so anyway!  Or if you DO NOT go that route, you will need to find some way to ensure the bass soundwaves remain in the air without passing through the floor, ceiling and walls...or at the very least, MINIMIZING that!  The problem with lower bass is that it is not your ears which actually pick up the sound...it is YOUR BODY MASS which does it, to include your FEET when standing!  There are ways to reduce what others will hear from a sub-woofer, but it depends on the subwoofer design to determine what you have to do to minimize the "pissed-off neighbor" factor! The further away you can get from a "downward-firing-only" design, the better off you will be!...unless you are on the GROUND floor...but that in itself STILL poses a major "pissed-off-neighbor-factor" problem!...with MORE neighbors being involved!

 

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I recently purchased a SVS SB-3000. I had a SB-2000 before that for  approx 45 days. Very happy with the SB-3000, it is powerful but super clean. Three things I wanted to point out, SVS has a 5 year warranty which covers everything stem to stern. Many sub manufacturers only do 2 or 3 years on the amp because that's what will fail. And they (manufacturers) know when most fail, hence the shorter warranty period.

Second, you can watch the SVS outlet on their main page. They offer 50-100 dollar discounts on the SB-2000 and 3000 there. Customer returns/open box units = same full warranty. Ebay too, I purchased the SB-3000 from an SVS authorized vendor on ebay @ a $100 discount over SVS. Go figure.

 

SVS customer service is unrivaled. 60 day return policy and they pay return shipping. And on line chat for help with any details or setup.

I first purchased the 2000, then returned it and purchased  the 3000. Both are really strong output units, just the 3000 has 4-5 db more of output. 

 

Btw, I have owned an Infinity sub (my first), a Klipsch, 2 Rythmiks (F-15 and a FV-15HP), and now the SVS. I was going to purchase another Rythmik (Brian Ding founder) but the SVS warranty persuaded me. And Rythmik offers 60 day returns but you have to pay return shipping cost and a 100 lb sub, that can add up. Can't say enough good things about SVS support from my brief experiences so far.

PSA (power sound audio, Tom worked for many years for another company then started his own business) offers some good sub values too with a full 5 year warranty.  Never owned one but guys seem to love em on AVS forums. I'm just not crazy about foam suspensions on transducer cones. Had to abandon a pair of really good Boston Acoustic tower speakers after the surrounds disintegrated after approx 20 years. They looked like brand new but all the foam suspensions crumbled and fell apart. Could have re-foamed em (suspension kits) but I cut my losses at that point.        

Edited by polizzio

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9 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

If I was you, and living in a typical European-style apartment complex, I would NOT get a sub-woofer, even moreso if I was NOT on the ground floor!  You MIGHT want to opt for something smaller than normal if you decide to do so anyway!  Or if you DO NOT go that route, you will need to find some way to ensure the bass soundwaves remain in the air without passing through the floor, ceiling and walls...or at the very least, MINIMIZING that!  The problem with lower bass is that it is not your ears which actually pick up the sound...it is YOUR BODY MASS which does it, to include your FEET when standing!  There are ways to reduce what others will hear from a sub-woofer, but it depends on the subwoofer design to determine what you have to do to minimize the "pissed-off neighbor" factor! The further away you can get from a "downward-firing-only" design, the better off you will be!...unless you are on the GROUND floor...but that in itself STILL poses a major "pissed-off-neighbor-factor" problem!...with MORE neighbors being involved!

 

 

Thanks for your comments. I don't play either of my systems loudly which is another reason I need bass reinforcement for this system. I'm hoping my foam and tile setup will work plus that corner of the building is an outside corner and I think if any sound does go down it will hopefully not disrupt anybody. I will probably speak with my neighbors before I buy anything.

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10 minutes ago, polizzio said:

I recently purchased a SVS SB-3000. I had a SB-2000 before that for  approx 45 days. Very happy with the SB-3000, it is powerful but super clean. Three things I wanted to point out, SVS has a 5 year warranty which covers everything stem to stern. Many sub manufacturers only do 2 or 3 years on the amp because that's what will fail. And they (manufacturers) know when most fail, hence the shorter warranty period.

Second, you can watch the SVS outlet on their main page. They offer 50-100 dollar discounts on the SB-2000 and 3000 there. Customer returns/open box units = same full warranty. Ebay too, I purchased the SB-3000 from an SVS authorized vendor on ebay @ a $100 discount over SVS. Go figure.

 

SVS customer service is unrivaled. 60 day return policy and they pay return shipping. And on line chat for help with any details or setup.

I first purchased the 2000, then returned it and purchased  the 3000. Both are really strong output units, just the 3000 has 4-5 db more of output. 

 

Btw, I have owned an Infinity sub (my first), a Klipsch, 2 Rythmiks (F-15 and a FV-15HP), and now the SVS. I was going to purchase another Rythmik (Brian Ding founder) but the SVS warranty persuaded me. And Rythmik offers 60 day returns but you have to pay return shipping cost and a 100 lb sub, that can add up. Can't say enough good things about SVS support from my brief experiences so far.

PSA (power sound audio, Tom worked for many years for another company then started his own business) offers some good sub values too with a full 5 year warranty.  Never owned one but guys seem to love em on AVS forums. I'm just not crazy about foam suspensions on transducer cones. Had to abandon a pair of really good Boston Acoustic tower speakers after the surrounds disintegrated after approx 20 years. They looked like brand new but all the foam suspensions crumbled and fell apart. Could have re-foamed em (suspension kits) but I cut my losses at that point.        

 

Thank you for this information and especially about your experience with SVS. I take the AVS forum posts with a grain of salt since most of those guys are heavy into home theatre and don't seem to have the same priorities guys with 2 channel setups have. I may actually go with the SB 1000 for a few reasons. But I'm still looking over all the choices.

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I have seen many discounted SB-1000s on the SVS outlet page. Many guys purchase and then want more I believe, but for your situation (apartment) it may be perfect. Either way good luck and happy listening :)

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I’ve got three subwoofers and I live in an apartment building.  Luckily, it’s made of steel and concrete rather than wood, so there is some noise isolation between apartments.  None of my subs sit on the floor.  The two smaller subs (20cm/8 inch, 90 watts) are in the bedroom, one on a bedside table, the other one on a strong cardboard box.  On top of those surfaces are sheets of 19mm (3/4 inch) neoprene pipe insulation.

 

The larger living room sub (25cm/10 inch, 500 watts) is sitting on a small table above one of the power amps.  It’s also sitting on a sheet of neoprene.  After nearly 15 years with this fairly powerful system (details listed in my signature at the bottom), I’ve had no noise complaints.  The system is very rarely played after midnight, and if I want to play it fairly loud, I do so in mid-afternoon, when most of my neighbours are away at work.

 

Another helpful thing is to make sure your entrance door is tightly sealed.  This helps in two ways:  it cuts down on drafts, so your home will feel a bit warmer and be less expensive to heat, plus it keeps the sound of your music inside your apartment.  I have an electric doorbell that rings in a central location in the apartment, but new visitors sometimes knock the door as well, because they can’t hear the doorbell from outside my door, and they can’t hear the music, either.

 

To seal the door properly, I turned out the inside lights and looked for light coming around the door.  There was lots.  The next step was to buy peel-and-stick neoprene (closed-cell) weatherstripping.  I cut it precisely and checked the fit with a credit card to make sure any gaps were as small as possible.  As for the gap under the door, I got a triple row door sweep that slides onto the door.  Now, if I turn out the lights inside the apartment, no light at all comes past the door.  That’s what you want.  Cold air is kept out, and music is kept in.

 

Hope this helps.

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I'm partial to Velodyne subs.  The current Impact or DD lines are great!  The Impact line is more inline with your RP speakers.  The DD line are servo units and are a little pricey.  You could also look at older models like the SPL series which is what the Impact series evolved from.  Also, the Foundation series and HGS series were precursors to the DD line. SVS make some really nice sealed subs too.  Paradigm has mad a lot of really nice subs. They had a servo series for many years that was great.

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I have two Velodyne DD10 I purchased used. They are on SVS isolation feet and on 2 inch rigid foam insulation in the bottom of home made 4post speaker stands. No complaints from my attached neighbour.  Get sealed front firing sub(s), and really good isolation feet!

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