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garyeanderson

Sucked in again, this time a pair of LSI for $400

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Making my morning rounds on craigslist yesterday I spotted a pair of La Scalla industrial that were located in Rhode Island . The "Hook was set" when I read the price of $400.

I emailed at 8:30 and got a call back from the seller an hour later and made the appointment to have a look. One was described as functioning and sounding "good", the other, Not So good. So I got the address which was about an hour from home and got the cash and some Fuel and set off. What I found when I saw them were a pair of Non split cabs that were from an estate where one of the cabs was brutalized for who knows why. The side was pried apart and the top lifted but the dog house was intact.   The seller was firm on the price so I finally agreed. We loaded them into the back of my F250 and I was on my way and home by 1:30  . When I got home and pulled out the component's of the damaged unit to further assess the possibility to re-glue it  I believe it will be possible to fix. The damaged LSI is missing both handle so I'll need a pair but otherwise it is complete. The damaged LSI (I have not gotten into the other cab yet) has a K43 steel frame, K55M with aluminum K400 horn, K77M and a AL crossover network. Cabinets have black spatter paint with rounded over tops and openings for the K77M and K400. The pair is sequential and built in the first week of 1985 . It is supposed to be a nice weekend so I'll bring it outside with all of my clamps at the ready to glue and nail it back together. Hope everyone has a great weekend... 

 

Sorry, no pictures as the camera is broke.

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You may have done OK depending on what you want to do with those LSI.

 

According to my Heritage Prices spreadsheet LSI in Good condition average $932.  In Avg/poor condition the average is $840.

 

They sound like they are in Poor condition with extensive rehab needed for one box.  It looks like the drivers will be OK, and if you keep them you will want to ditch the Type AL crossovers and go for for something like some updated AA's.

 

It's a lot of work and you'll have to put out some cash to fully restore them but I think you'll come out ahead on them in the end if you sell them or keep them.

+++

 

1 hour ago, garyeanderson said:

Sorry, no pictures as the camera is broke.

 

I know how the camera feels.  :rolleyes:

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Thanks for the info, I am not sure how much work will be involved but I guess I was looking for a "spring" project. In the past I built a pair of ported la scalla clones and well, never really finished them. I guess its been some time since I wrote about it -  nearly 9 years, how did that happen?

The Clones are still around and I figured at the worst I would build some tops for them. I'll have to see how it goes with these new to me La Scalla's

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I never liked the Klipsch Industrial handles....ESPECIALLY for the LSI single-cab units!  There are more and better options for handles that don't require putting holes into the sides of LaScala bass bin sections, and having something actually PROTRUDING INTO the sound-path-way of the bass horn lens, on both sides!

 

Will you be using these inside or outside most of the time?

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10 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

I never liked the Klipsch Industrial handles....ESPECIALLY for the LSI single-cab units!  There are more and better options for handles that don't require putting holes into the sides of LaScala bass bin sections, and having something actually PROTRUDING INTO the sound-path-way of the bass horn lens, on both sides!

 

Will you be using these inside or outside most of the time?

 

The handles/holes are in the high frequency part of the cabinet, they a bit high for me to use but I wanted to fill in the holes with something that looked right.

 

Not sure of the eventual usage, but  I think that they will be indoors. I guess I did a search on "klipsch" in craigslist and did the impulse buy. 

They are a bit heavier than I thought, I was thinking something along the lines of 125 lbs . but I read on here someplace that they are closer to 165 bs.

(that's more than me).

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Take a rubber mallet and beat the sides off, clean your wood up and put new 25mm Baltic Birch sides on there. You would not believe how much better they will sound and since there is so much damage why not do this? I had 4 LSI's in terrible shape and I saved the components and the doghouse from each and made splits from them.

Designer Brown Sound.jpg

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1 hour ago, garyeanderson said:

 

1.  The handles/holes are in the high frequency part of the cabinet, they a bit high for me to use but I wanted to fill in the holes with something that looked right.  

2. They are a bit heavier than I thought, I was thinking something along the lines of 125 lbs . but I read on here someplace that they are closer to 165 bs.

(that's more than me).

1.  You CAN just REPLACE the sides (using thicker BALTIC BIRCH PLYWOOD side panels instead...they will SOUND better that way!)..OR: Just remove the handles, cut an oversized plywood plug to fill the hole...plan for rabbeting the outside edges of the hole, and the  inside edges of the plywood plug...so that the plug has a TIGHT FIT to the hole, but the two surfaces will be flush-even ...glue up the rabbeted edges of both, and insert the plug and bar-clamp it in place (This is when a home-made thick Baltic birch plywood dadoed T-bar comes into play!  TOO EASY TO MAKE!) while the glue sets up...remove bar- clamps and the waxed-paper-covered T-Bar and sand off any glue above the smooth surfaces...paint what you just fixed, and DONE! 

 

I'd like to see pics of these sometime...keeps me from asking so many questions...LOL!  I will be moving sometime this year, but the plan is to be able to set up my cabinet shop stuff wherever I  move to...then I 'll slap a pair of UTILTY LaScalas together, specifically FOR the shop...and other "utility" purposes.  When I do I will be experimenting on them for the nicer ones that I will build for inside the home, itself!

 

2.   For ease of mobility, I plan to use something similar to how a towel-rack goes together...mounted horizontally across the extreme upper rear of the HF cabinet section (where that horizontal reinforcement piece  for  the cabinet top/sides is already built-in), and reinforce that cabinet junction of the horizontal reinforcement piece already there at each end with glued-up-and-clamped blocks of thick Baltic birch mounted to the inside of the junction at each end.  This will give me much stronger mounting points for using hex-bolts, washers and nuts to attach the rear handle end units.  The handle itself will be made of 1.5" diameter oak doweling, glued-up and inserted into the solid oak end units' bored blind-end holes.  Make sense?  So now I have the HANDLES, which cannot be seen from the front or the sides of the speakers, but which are more than strong en9ough to maneuver the LaScalas around!

 

At the bottom of the bass bins on the rear, I will mount large non-swivel, but  LOCKING-Caster-WHEEL units, that will have the wheels ALMOST touching the floor when the speakers are upright, but whenever you want to move them, you just unlock the caster wheels, lean them back some, until the wheels ARE ON THE FLOOR, and let the wheels and handles make life easier for you!...kinda like having a virtually-invisible built-in two wheeler!.  The "LOCKABLE-WHEEL casters" part of the equation, eliminates any vibration sound effects possible from having free-floating wheels when the speakers are being played! 😉

 

That way, when I build my PRETTY LaScalas, for INSIDE the home, I will already have a built-in bonus WAF thing going on...for moving them around to vacuum and such!

 

Yep, I tend to THINK SMART and PLAN AHEAD on things like this!😂

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While you used the term "casters" I don't quite think that's what you meant, or would want.

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44 minutes ago, glens said:

While you used the term "casters" I don't quite think that's what you meant, or would want.

That's what THEY CALL IT...a "caster":  

 

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_363218_363218?cm_mmc=Bing-pla&utm_source=Bing_PLA&utm_medium=Material Handling > Casters > 500 - 999 Lbs.&utm_campaign=Fairbanks&utm_content=189976&msclkid=d31ece8415e11cd2596d925b9be533f2

 

caster.jpg.670634dcd27fcac768f9f9ba9907bd5e.jpg

 

Any more Questions?

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59 minutes ago, glens said:

While you used the term "casters" I don't quite think that's what you meant, or would want.

 

That’s true.  Casters swivel.  If wheels are fixed and don’t swivel, they’re just wheels. 

 

However, attaching wheels to the rear faces of the La Scalas is a really good idea if you move them often, especially with the handles near the tops of their rear faces.

 

Attaching casters to the bottoms of cabinets is not always a good idea.  When I bought a pair of Belles from the University of Victoria (UVic) music department, they had Neutrik connectors attached to aluminum plates on the backs, probably for convenience, which was good, but they also had 4 casters attached to the bottoms each cabinet, just high enough to enable them to be easily moved. This was not so good.  It was okay with the usual weight of the Belles, but when I put a 35” CRT TV that weighed 180 pounds on top, the casters took the load through the bottoms of the cabinets, not the sides, where the stock steel button feet were installed.

 

The Belles have a different style of cabinet construction from first-generation (pre-2006) La Scalas, so the pressure caused the joints at the top of the bass section to open up a bit, as the centre top bass panel sunk a bit.  The gaps are very small, and when I noticed them, over a year had gone by.  About a year later, I replaced the big old 180-lb. CRT TV with a 65” Panasonic plasma unit that weighs 120 pounds, which reduced the load a lot.  Seven years later, the gaps are no bigger than 1-1.5 mm (1/16”), but just for my peace of mind, I put a piece of 1/2” x 1/2” aluminum angle, about a yard long, across the front of the one Belle I’m using as a front centre speaker.  This keeps the centre section from sagging any further, as it shares the load with the side panels.  It’s just slipped under the bottom front of the speaker, and is barely noticeable against the light-coloured carpet.

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10 minutes ago, HDBRbuilder said:

 

Quite often, wheels like that come in swivelling and non-swivelling models.  My rolling tool cabinet has two of each style.  I’m guessing that this company calls both varieties “casters”.  As long as the picture makes it clear what you’re ordering, the name doesn’t really matter.  That’s my opinion, anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Islander said:

 

That’s true.  Casters swivel.  If wheels are fixed and don’t swivel, they’re just wheels. 

 

However, attaching wheels to the rear faces of the La Scalas is a really good idea if you move them often, especially with the handles near the tops of their rear faces.

 

There are SWIVEL casters and there are FIXED casters...and they both have a wheel...some have a locking wheel and some don't

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1 minute ago, HDBRbuilder said:

There are SWIVEL casters and there are FIXED casters...and they both have a wheel

 

Okay.  I’m not going to argue with someone I respect over something as trivial as this.

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I'm not going to argue either, just state the one time that "caster" means there's two axles at right angles to each other, the vertical axle offset from (so as to not pass through) the horizontal axle, thus the wheel is free to spin in both planes and allow for ease of directional changes while the wheeled object is in motion.

 

Mounting the fixed (non-castered) wheels on the back of the enclosure so they bear no weight unless the box is tipped back is an excellent idea.  Using castered wheels that way would work a bit maddeningly.

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Hi to all that have read or replied or just had a good laugh

 

   I like posting photo's as my typing sucks and it makes explaining easier. I may need to invest in a camera (smile)

 

Last night I started to glue the cracks high frequency motorboard back together, I should replace but my thoughts are that if I start buying

plywood, I might as well start a new build. If things don't work out and odd noises appear that should not be emanating from the repaired LSI cabinet

I may just use the parts elsewhere. I would at this point rather save what I have though.

    I am using Tightbond 3 for glue on this repair 

The top of the high frequency was lifted slightly approximately half way across the front of the motorboard. That was glued about a half hour ago. The glue is too thick to flow into the opening that is less than a thirty-second of an inch even inserting a knife to open it, so I thinned it a bit with water, taped off the line along the split and pored it though. With the glue running though the crack I followed with a bit of un-thinned Tightbond 3. Once that was drawn into the split I used 4 clamps to close the gap and cleaned up the mess of drools.

 

Latter today I will separate the one side that still has the  high frequency motorboard and top attached from the doghouse with the other side still firmly attached and finish pulling the nails through the plywood. it is nailed from the side and bottom so it is held captive very well. at the moment it is lifted an eight to a quarter inch. I will lay it over at a 45 degree angle to pull it from the rest of the cabinet. once I get all of the nails out, the whole thing will be glued, clamped into place and nailed with 4 penny finish nails. If I am satisfied with the outcome of the repair (components re-installed and playing, I'll deal with the holes left by the missing handles.

 

HDBR - Thank for the insight and all of the helpful posts, I do respect all of your experience and advice.  

Dave A - nice looking speakers 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Dave A said:

Take a rubber mallet and beat the sides off, clean your wood up and put new 25mm Baltic Birch sides on there. You would not believe how much better they will sound and since there is so much damage why not do this? I had 4 LSI's in terrible shape and I saved the components and the doghouse from each and made splits from them.

Designer Brown Sound.jpg

Hi Dave

 

Been there done that with my first build, 15 mm and 12 mm Baltic birch laminated together the panels are 1 and an eight inches thick on the sides and the doghouse is a double layer of 12 mm laminated. these are heavy (see the attached link in my first reply for details)

 

 

1280691742.jpg

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Gary,

 

The workmanship in your DIY clones is excellent, but so unlike Colin Chapman.  Your robust construction techniques are antithetical to Chapman’s design  philosophy that a car need only be strong enough to not collapse until the cool down lap.

 

I know the opening visible above is to vent the doghouse to the slot port, but is there another woofer access opening in the bottom?  I would not want to install a woofer through the top.  It would be somewhat like trying to swallow a suppository. 😮

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2 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Gary,

 

The workmanship in your DIY clones is excellent, but so unlike Colin Chapman.  Your robust construction techniques are antithetical to Chapman’s design  philosophy that a car need only be strong enough to not collapse until the cool down lap.

 

I know the opening visible above is to vent the doghouse to the slot port, but is there another woofer access opening in the bottom?  I would not want to install a woofer through the top.  It would be somewhat like trying to swallow a suppository. 😮

 

Diz

 

   The tops come off with about 25 screws, it takes about 2 minutes with a cordless drill and the right bit to pop the tops, and a bit longer to reinstall.

 

I took the (side/top/high frequency motorboard) off of the (doghouse/other side) and glued the worst of the delamination's,  I hope it will be enough to quell the unwanted buzzing. I just cut some 3/4" long dowels (3/8" diameter) to plug the holes in the side and top (6 total for the two cabinets) that these cabs had to fly them at one time.  I took the back off of the second cabinet and it also has an AL network, K55-M and K77M. The bottom hatch has yet to be removed so I can't yet confirm that it has a K43 but I am guessing it does. I'm off to get some more fuel and then I see if I feel like reuniting the two parts of the LSI  (big smile)

 

                                                                                             Gary

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Gary -

 

I feel better now, knowing you have access options.  While confirming the woofers, I would add four more mounting screws to the four used in Hope.

 

I’m enjoying your thread.  Welcome back.

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5 minutes ago, DizRotus said:

I would add four more mounting screws to the four used in Hope. 

 

Easy to add the two at the top and bottom, but nearly impossible to add on the side.

 

What thread size are used on the t-nuts? At DJK's suggestion I used 10-32 machine screws with a hex head so I could use a socket (less chance of slipping and poking a hole through the surround). The 10-32 threads give a smoother tightening and are less likely to vibrate loose.

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