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Ziggurat

SMWM or Imperial?

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Now I know I am throwing a fat cat among the king-size pigeons here, but I gotta ask....

 

I love DaveA's SMWMs, no doubt - but they do stick out like my mother-in-law's nasal implement.... No offence DaveA, you are an artist and a scholar, but my wife is not blind and my house has walls - one or both of these minor inconveniences must at some point be considered................. so....... 

 

.... What if I were to plonk my soon-to-arrive K402's on top of a Jensen/Decware Imperial rear loaded horn instead?  I'd have to lay Imperials on their side, but I would have several more placement options and could still use the Xilica to tweak... 

 

People have said that the magic is in the K402, and they would rather have a K402 on a LaScala bin than an MWM bin with something else on top.  Other people have said that the Imperial leaves the KHorn far behind.  I wouldn't know.  I've never heard a rear-loaded horn that didn't have an evil Lowther stuck in it, so I am not able to fathom how it might sound. Could I be onto a winner?

 

Is there any other easily recommendable horn bass bin that goes low, but maybe tucks up a bit nicer than MWMs and their derivatives?  Does anyone know just how low an Imperial actually goes?  I hear tell of 20hz, but I'm dubious.  

 

Very interested in your opinions!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ziggurat
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The most compact way to use 402s is on top of La Scala cabinets, or on just the bass sections of a pair of La Scala IIs.  In my case, I left the HF section of the LS2s in place and put the 402 horns on top (total height around 5’ 6-1/2”), for a few reasons.  Nowhere else to store the HF sections, and I like the height of the horns that way, both because of the sound and because they match up well with the screen of the TV, which is sitting on a Belle.  I also think it looks better.

 

402 JubScala IIs sound great, especially with K-691 drivers on the 402 horns, and they dominate the room a bit less than the bigger Jubilee LF sections, or the even bigger MWM cabs. 

 

I should mention that La Scalas really need the help of a sub (or two), but then most speakers do.

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The KPT-904 bass bin or earlier variant is way better than a La Scala and the foot print is not a lot more. If a wife determines what appears over sound quality you won't get any peace over that 402 either. If however she can live with the 402 the 904 bass bin is an admirable choice and FAR smaller than the S-MWM. The S-MWM is huge and I don't expect to see many if any ever built besides mine for that reason.

  402 + 904 = jaw dropping sound. 

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Is the 402 an earlier variant of the 904... thanks

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7 minutes ago, Dave A said:

The KPT-904 bass bin or earlier variant is way better than a La Scala and the foot print is not a lot more. If a wife determines what appears over sound quality you won't get any peace over that 402 either. If however she can live with the 402 the 904 bass bin is an admirable choice and FAR smaller than the S-MWM. The S-MWM is huge and I don't expect to see many if any ever built besides mine for that reason.

  402 + 904 = jaw dropping sound. 

Same question please...

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How's about a good old fashioned Jube bass bin?

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51 minutes ago, billybob said:

Is the 402 an earlier variant of the 904... thanks

 The 402 is the big top horn on Jubes and other things and the 904 is a bass cabinet.  

 

This pic, 402 horn on top and 2 single mwm bass bins

mwm old pic.jpg

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 I thought so  came confuseeasy my...listening outside lately during these non humid  eves. McCartny lp playing inside the house. Missed the pilgram again. Hope you and Shirley enjoyed...

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Hm. I am guessing a 904 passive xo circuit is easy enough to come by too.....

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11 hours ago, billybob said:

Is the 402 an earlier variant of the 904... thanks

Sorry for the confusion but here is what I should have quoted. It should have been a KPT-942

 

Based on the proven KPT-904-LF dual 15” bass unit, the KPT-942 delivers powerful
bass from a cabinet just 24” deep. For high output combined with excellent
coverage, the system uses a KPT-402-HF Tractrix
® horn with K-1132 2” exit titanium
compression driver to reproduce mid and high frequencies


Dog gonnit this time maybe I have it right. Copy and paste is not your friend if you stick it there and don't check to see it is right.

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12 hours ago, babadono said:

How's about a good old fashioned Jube bass bin?

 

That is where this originally started for me. I was pretty drawn to the design, but I moved on for several reasons: Firstly, those who own both MWMs and Jubes said the former had significant advantages, and secondly it has been noted that the diy plans are not necessarily accurate.

 

Other ideas have been suggested too, but tracking plans down has been hard work. 

 

I don't mind going big, but if there was some way to keep the depth to 36" or so, I would immediately gain two additional placement possibilities in my house, one being in a larger and possibly more suitable room.

 

Maybe I'm back to Jubes, a leap of faith with DIY plans and perhaps running a sub? 

 

Maybe the subwoofer is the great leveller of the argument? 

 

Build 4 LaScala cabinets and a sub?

 

As much as I like the idea of the direct radiator simplicity, I have 15" dr speakers now, and really want to experience horn bass again. 

 

Keep hitting me.

 

 

 

 

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Here are my options for SMWS or MWMS - interested in comments.

 

 

LP Short.JPG

LP Long.JPG

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8 minutes ago, Ziggurat said:

Here are my options for SMWS or MWMS

Just my 2 cents ... room maybe a bit small?? :D  Tried matching K-510 and Forte's in a small 12x12ft room. K-510's just overpowered the Forte's so got a set of 18" JBL bass bins with a 775 wpc Crown amp.  Well; it was impressive, but just way too much for the room :(  But ... might work in your 14x21ft room. :D 

Cheers, Emile

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You could contact Dana Moore at Soniphase... he has some horn cabinets and plans that are nice. Greg Roberts used to speak highly of one of his models. A little more space friendly.

 

Bruce

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How low do you want your bass to go? The second drawing is not far from what my speaker placement is but I also have 13'+ ceilings and the room is much longer but is also full of hard flat surfaces from equipment and stuff. Great big gear sounds good at any volume and does so with a different quality of sound smaller things can't duplicate, in my opinion for what it is worth. The 402 horn is the key ingredient and I chose a big single fold horn because I think it has superior sound. There are a lot of cabinet plans out there as Marvel suggests and many I am sure sound great. It is a shame you can't hear some of these various configurations before you commit to buying something.

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4 hours ago, Emile said:

Just my 2 cents ... room maybe a bit small?? :D  Tried matching K-510 and Forte's in a small 12x12ft room. K-510's just overpowered the Forte's so got a set of 18" JBL bass bins with a 775 wpc Crown amp.  Well; it was impressive, but just way too much for the room :(  But ... might work in your 14x21ft room. :D 

Cheers, Emile

That's a strange mix and how did you expect two tweeters and a horn and mid that would overlap to work without tri amping at the least?

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1 minute ago, Dave A said:

How low do you want your bass to go? The second drawing is not far from what my speaker placement is but I also have 13'+ ceilings and the room is much longer but is also full of hard flat surfaces from equipment and stuff. Great big gear sounds good at any volume and does so with a different quality of sound smaller things can't duplicate, in my opinion for what it is worth. The 402 horn is the key ingredient and I chose a big single fold horn because I think it has superior sound. There are a lot of cabinet plans out there as Marvel suggests and many I am sure sound great. It is a shame you can't hear some of these various configurations before you commit to buying something.

 

As low as possible - hopefully removing the need for a sub - which adds more space.  

 

I totally agree regarding the large gear providing something that other gear doesn't - I lived with Khorns in my bedroom for 3 years whilst flatting, no room for anything else except sonic bliss.  I don't quite want to go that far this time around.  The SWMWs would definitely not work in the larger of my two lounge areas due to to protrusion, limiting placement to the room I have drawn.  

 

Yes, it is a real shame I am so far away from y'all.

 

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10 hours ago, Dave A said:

how did you expect two tweeters and a horn and mid that would overlap to work without tri amping at the least?

Did bi-amping and could not get it to work right :( 

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