45 amps

[jcmusic]

20 hours ago, Schu said:

What's the main differences in the tube characteristics between the 2a3 and the 45... 2a3 is capable of more output, correct?

The 45 tube is much more linear so the sound quality is much better...

[Schu]

So is there something you want to add to the thread or are you here merely to exert your superiority over others?

[mike stehr]

Jeff isn't exerting any superiority over anyone...he just gave an honest opinion, with truth involved.

 

 

[jcmusic]

4 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

I disagree.  There is virtually no difference in linearity between the two sets of curves.  Both are linear !! 

 

Look at their curves more carefully, and if you can document the difference, I'd like to find out about this from you.. 

 

One has to define WHAT manufactured  Type 45 and 2A3 you are talking about, before making any blanket recommendation..   

 

There are manufacturer's  differences, that extend well beyond the two different tube " types ", themselves. Eg : EML, vintage, bi-plate VS single plate, solid, mesh.

 

Jeffrey

You should read my reply more closely, I did not recommend anything I said what I was using and what differences I heard between them...

[ssh]

Well, just as with breasts, size in tubes isn't the only distinguisher. We can talk about size, though.

SSH

[seti]

Yeah we can discuss it till the cows come home but ultimately just get some low powered tube amps try some stuff out and when your happy stop and listen to tunes.

[robert_kc]

Off the top of my head, IME there are several factors that affect whether a tube amp has adequate power, in addition to speaker sensitivity, speaker/amp synergy, room size, and listening volume:

 

1. Genre of music.   Large scale orchestral music can have tremendous dynamic range, and powerful bass (e.g., bass drum, double bass, pipe organ), and therefore can place a relatively large demand on an amp.   Folk music, not so much.
2. Mastering of a recording.   Modern hi-res recordings of classical music typically are not compressed.  OTOH, a lot of pop music is highly compressed, resulting in less dynamic range and less demand on an amp.
3. Technology of the consumer deliverable.   Modern hi-res consumer deliverables like Blu-ray, 24bit/192kHz download, and SACD are capable of tremendous dynamic range.  OTOH, some consumer formats (e.g., LP) are capable of less dynamic range, and therefore place less demand on an amp.  
4. Whether or not a subwoofer cross-over is installed before the amp, thereby off-loading power-hungry bass from the main amp and speakers.  (I use my Oppo UDP-205’s bass management feature, and line-level subwoofer connection.)

Unfortunately, I’ve never heard a 45 based amp.   My “Inspire ‘Fire Bottle’ SE Stereo Tube Amplifier HO” single-ended amp by Dennis Had, equipped with 6L6GC (probably 8 wpc), sounds good driving my Klipsch RF-7II for folk and big-band music, but doesn’t have the oomph to deliver large scale orchestral music at concert hall levels.   (RF-7II is rated at 101dB sensitivity, vs. 105dB for Klipschorn.)

I’m aware that Dennis Had makes a FIRE-BOTTLE 45 SET amp that puts out about 2 wpc.  I wish I could hear it with Klipschorn, when playing hi-res recordings of classical chamber music (e.g., a string quartet).  With that said, even though Klipschorn require about half the power of my RF-7II, I’m skeptical that a 2 wpc amp can fill an average size room with concert-level volume, and concert-level dynamics, for a hi-res recording of Mahler Symphony 2 (i.e., a modern recording delivered on Blu-ray, SACD, or 24bit/192kHz download).   If you’ve heard Mahler 2 performed live, you know that the opening of movement 4 (Primal Light) has a solo alto singing softly (with no sound reinforcement system), and then the opening of movement 5 has a large-scale orchestra playing at maximum fff volume – i.e., an explosion of sound.  If you’re playing a modern hi-res recording of Mahler Symphony 2 (i.e., a recording with unrestricted dynamic range), and you set the volume level on your hi-fi to be able to hear the opening of movement 4 at an appropriate volume level, then the opening of movement 5 requires some serious oomph – i.e., probably more than 2 wpc – even with Klipschorn.

[jcmusic]

8 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Now, an EML Type 45 is a horse of a different color, and it performs well.  But its hundreds of dollars, isn't it? !! . 

Now you are on to something, yes it cost more but you get what you pay for as you stated earlier they other 45's were cheaply made. 

My system is quad amped so I have not trouble using a flea powered tube in my setup, at 118db the mid drivers in my system can be driven with a cell phone.

In my system the 2A3 did not sound anywhere close to the 45 and that's what I was referring to when I posted earlier. 

[jcmusic]

11 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

Two questions I have :

 

(1)  In your Type 45 and 2A3 comparison, did you ever get a chance to compare EML versions of each, directly, one to another?? 

 

(2) How do you suppose the comparison would have gone if the single tube had to play the entire speaker/ music spectrum, and NOT as a narrow part in your quad amped system???

Jeffery,

(1) In this case no I was comparing NOS tubes not the EML tubes.

(2) I did run just the 45 amp with NOS and EML tubes by itself before I went to an all active setup. Nothing ever sounded better to me until I went active.

 

Just so you know when I said quad amped I was including the subs, so in reality my system is tri amped.

[guf]

 have to say my quick  assessment  is that I love the 45 way better than the 2a3. I'm also excited to try a 46. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by guf
Spelling

[seti]

13 minutes ago, guf said:

 have to say my quick assent is that I love the 45 way better than the 2a3. I'm also excited to try a 46. 

 

Holy crap!!!!!!!!!

Are you kidding me..... You didn't dip your toes in you leaped. Thomas Mayer is one of my fave builders. Top notch.