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avguytx

Adding sub(s) to Belle clones (version 2)

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2 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

As long as the horn mouth is between 18"- 2 1/2 feet from a boundary ( depending on the crossover point) to avoid a null it would work fine.

Mouth could be facing front of couch? Or back back I guess if the wall behind couch has some distance. I was thinking it would be a great way to add a large horn sub. Basically take no room up, and be near field. win win win?

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7 minutes ago, Heritage_Head said:

Mouth could be facing front of couch? Or back back I guess if the wall behind couch has some distance. I was thinking it would be a great way to add a large horn sub. Basically take no room up, and be near field. win win win?

 

Improper placement will cause a null in frequency response, if possible fire it into a boundary for best results.

 

Near field placement is not a great choice in my experience using horn loaded subs.

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33 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Subs in a hatchback with the rear seat down works just like a horn along with the added cabin gain can work very well.

 

A 10" driver is really not recommended in the THT though it will work,  better if used in the Table Tuba design and the recommended driver is very reasonable in fact less expensive than the little 6.5" driver in the little tapped horn mentioned earlier with far greater output.

 

My bad on that part.  It was the table tuba I meant to say...not the THT.  It's size isn't hard to work with at all...but don't want it to be a coffee table, though. 

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10 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Improper placement will cause a null in frequency response, if possible fire it into a boundary for best results.

 

Near field placement is not a great choice in my experience using horn loaded subs.

I see. What is your min distance with horn subs in your experience? (how far away before its to close)

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9 minutes ago, Heritage_Head said:

I see. What is your min distance with horn subs in your experience? (how far away before its to close)

 

Depends on the room, corner placement is usually best but not always. You can experiment when you get to that point.

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10 hours ago, avguytx said:

I'm good with having something larger than the lil wrecker since it's going in a pretty good size room...14.5 x 35 or so. I don't play at ear bleeding levels but I would imagine I get over 100db on occasion.  Tinnitus doesn't allow for too much more volume, but, I do want some solid bass along with the Belles. I figure it will have to be something like the THT with the 10" woofer.  Years ago back in my car audio days, Kicker (Stillwater Designs) had a box design that used 4 of their C-6.5" woofers that was called "suitcase full of boom". It was very impressive in the hatch of my 93 Cobra for sure but you had the transfer function of the hatchback to help its LF extension. Maybe I'm more from the school of "there's no replacement for displacement". :D

If you have the room, go for the boom.

The option I proposed works well if you dont have the additional floor space or need to go that loud. 

Good luck, should be fun.

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@jason str  When you purchase these plans, are the most current woofers recommended listed with them or are they outdated?  I'm about to get rolling on this as I'm about to start building cabinets and countertops for the garage so might as well cut the wood out for a Table Tuba at the same time.

 

What amp is recommended?  Do I need something specific to run the sub?  I have a couple of Carver amps, including an M-200t that's fully rebuilt, that is 120wpc stereo/350 mono; I would just need an electronic crossover to go with it.  Or maybe it would be better to get something with everything built in.

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32 minutes ago, avguytx said:

@jason str  When you purchase these plans, are the most current woofers recommended listed with them or are they outdated?  I'm about to get rolling on this as I'm about to start building cabinets and countertops for the garage so might as well cut the wood out for a Table Tuba at the same time.

 

What amp is recommended?  Do I need something specific to run the sub?  I have a couple of Carver amps, including an M-200t that's fully rebuilt, that is 120wpc stereo/350 mono; I would just need an electronic crossover to go with it.  Or maybe it would be better to get something with everything built in.

The current drivers should be in the plans ans sub woofer plate amps work well as they have the needed controls built in.  You'll have to mount them externally as there's no way to mount them in the sub like a conventional box sub.

 

As far as wattage goes, I have a TT with dual 8's and a BASH 300 driving it and it's more than enough.  Drivers are wired at an 8 Ohm load so the amp is probably only putting out (guessing) 180-200 watts.

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4 hours ago, avguytx said:

@jason str  When you purchase these plans, are the most current woofers recommended listed with them or are they outdated?  I'm about to get rolling on this as I'm about to start building cabinets and countertops for the garage so might as well cut the wood out for a Table Tuba at the same time.

 

What amp is recommended?  Do I need something specific to run the sub?  I have a couple of Carver amps, including an M-200t that's fully rebuilt, that is 120wpc stereo/350 mono; I would just need an electronic crossover to go with it.  Or maybe it would be better to get something with everything built in.

 

Let us know what driver you go with when you get to that point.

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Payment for the Table Tuba Stereo sent so I'll peruse the woofer list and see what's available after I receive email.

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I thought there might be more drivers than just the couple mentioned in the document but it looks like you just take the acceptable ranges of fs, qts, and Vas and most anything could work as long as depth permits.  Have people used car audio woofers in the past?  I have access to many lines from multiples of dealers I know in OK, AR, and TX from when I was a manufacturers rep.  I can get a hella deal on those.  I'm going to go with a 10" woofer most likely.

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The 8 inch drivers are dirt cheap and work well if they're the ones I'm thinking of.  26 dollar MCM drivers.  See if MCM 55-2421 is listed.

 

EDIT, I just checked my plans and those are the ones.  Really cheap and work really well.

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3 minutes ago, avguytx said:

I thought there might be more drivers than just the couple mentioned in the document but it looks like you just take the acceptable ranges of fs, qts, and Vas and most anything could work as long as depth permits.  Have people used car audio woofers in the past?  I have access to many lines from multiples of dealers I know in OK, AR, and TX from when I was a manufacturers rep.  I can get a hella deal on those.  I'm going to go with a 10" woofer most likely.

 

Use the recommended Dayton 10" driver.

 

For the amp i recommend either getting a MINI DSP HD and use the amplifier you have or this Dayton DSP model.

 

DSP will allow better adjustment and an option to high pass the mains for best results to assure you get the most out of your system.

 

 

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Any other amps besides a plate amp?  I'd rather keep everything together equipment wise versus finding a place to put a plate amp.  My Carver amp isn't 4-ohm mono stable...although I could use a single channel of it.

 

So even the Belle's need a HP for them?  I would have thought as much roll off as they have below 100hz they would be ok.  But, electrically crossing them over means the amp isn't having to reproduce unnecessary LF.

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9 minutes ago, avguytx said:

Any other amps besides a plate amp?  I'd rather keep everything together equipment wise versus finding a place to put a plate amp.  My Carver amp isn't 4-ohm mono stable...although I could use a single channel of it.

 

So even the Belle's need a HP for them?  I would have thought as much roll off as they have below 100hz they would be ok.  But, electrically crossing them over means the amp isn't having to reproduce unnecessary LF.

 

A 4 Ohm woofer does not stay 4 Ohm with this design, you can probably get by with your 8 Ohm rated amplifier if that's the case.

 

As for the high pass, no you don't need it but you answered some of your own question, this will give you more options for best results when you go to dial things in.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, avguytx said:

So even the Belle's need a HP for them?

You can let them naturally roll off and use the low pass filter on the sub amp.

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6 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

 https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-spa-f-subwoofer-plate-amplifier-mounting-frame-for-spa250dsp-and-spa500dsp--300-8011

 

EDIT, build a box or buy one like the above and place it by the rest of your gear.

 

Not a bad idea, really.  Trying to decide how, and where, I want it to be in the room.  I'm thinking I'll make it "furniture like" but really will depend on its location.  Could build the box per directions and then extend out whatever area to account for the amp being mounted on the sub....not inside of the cabinet, of course.

 

Was just looking at that plate amp....pretty cool.

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20 hours ago, jason str said:

 

 

As for the high pass, no you don't need it but you answered some of your own question, this will give you more options for best results when you go to dial things in.

 

 

I have two Belle systems with subs. My system in my basement has a Dayton SA1000 amp driving a couple dayton 12" direct radiating subs. This amp does offer a 80hz HP cut off and I have tried it both ways, with and without. May be psychosomatic, but I prefer using the HP. I wouldn't make it the main determining factor, but if you are trying to decide between two models, go for the one with the HP. As Jason states, it give you an added option when dialing in. 

I also prefer to have my sub amps by my other equipment and not attached to or in the sub cabinet. Besides the down side of subjecting the amp to vibrations, I am just too old to be crawling on the floor while "dialing in".

Just another 2 cents worth of advice.

Have fun.

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