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Is this an audiophile forum?


Alessio

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On 6/14/2019 at 10:46 AM, Edgar said:

 

The speakers and the room are the most important parts of the signal chain.

 

That said, look at how picky some members are about pairing tube amps with Klipsch loudspeakers.

 

On the other hand, few seem to have $20,000 amps because it's just not necessary.

 I will respectfully disagree with "The speakers and the room are the most important parts of the signal chain", at least to some extent.

 

IMHO it starts with the recording, and ends with the room. Aside from the actual performance (difficult to turn a pig's ear into a silk purse), the recording engineer is king. It is he/she who influences the sound of the recording most. And it is the room acoustics that most influence how the speakers actually perform, especially at lower frequencies, and therefore what we hear from the recording.

 

That being said I would say yes, this is an audiophile forum. My definition of audiophile is someone who is interested in how good or bad recorded sound sounds. This usually in the context of music reproduction but some audiophiles are more interested in one or more aspects of the "hardware" in the audio reproduction chain than in the music, although it may be tough to get them to admit it. Regardless, if you're enjoying whatever particular aspect of this that you like, then that's what's best for you. Not everyone has to "take it to the limit".

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From my experience audiophile is usually associated with snobbish behavior. Lots of turned up noses and scoffing. Classifying cheaper pieces of gear or brands as midfi. They consider their ears special or golden. I think it helps them justify wasting money on high end cables and overpriced gear. And when your normal ears can’t hear the difference it is only because your system is resolving enough. 

 

Not my cup of tea at all. I like this place because  most everyone is very down to earth. And their knowledge is vast. 

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2 hours ago, AHall said:

From my experience audiophile is usually associated with snobbish behavior. Lots of turned up noses and scoffing. Classifying cheaper pieces of gear or brands as midfi. They consider their ears special or golden. I think it helps them justify wasting money on high end cables and overpriced gear. And when your normal ears can’t hear the difference it is only because your system is resolving enough. 

 

Not my cup of tea at all. I like this place because  most everyone is very down to earth. And their knowledge is vast. 

That's Eliteism, and yes I hate that! Like back in the day when Usenet Newsgroups were our predecessor to the WWW I frequented a Newsgroup called Rec.Boats.Paddle (RBP) and people would come on the group asking about Coleman canoes! Which to veteran RBPers were like "You can do so much better with a good canoe", and I was like "It's better than standing on the shore wishing!"

Eliteism SUCKS! Having and appreciating fine gear is one thing, being a jerk about it is another!

John Kuthe...

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On 6/14/2019 at 9:33 AM, Alessio said:

I'm definitely not an experienced audiophile (I'm mostly a music lover that is trying to improve his listening experience), but i think I've noticed a curious difference between this forum and the few others I've been visiting...

Of all the answers that I've seen thus far, perhaps few if any have identified the specifics of "why it is the way it is...nowadays".  I also agree with you on the objective: it's all about improving the experience of listening to the music.

 

Perhaps it would be instructive to look back to 2005 when one Klipsch engineer in particular joined the forum--Roy Delgado.  He's an engineer in Klipsch's professional products (cinema and business-related loudspeakers).  His handle back then was "Bodcaw Boy", and nowadays it's "Chief Bonehead".  I believe he in particular made a large difference in a significant number of forum members' viewpoints on the subject, and likely a presence whose influence spread across all portions of the forum.  His sustained presence in the forum for several years--particularly with the "Jubilee" crowd early on (from my knothole) I believe had a large effect on attracting people willing to learn more about real loudspeaker design--not BS that you see almost everywhere in the industry and in "audiophile magazines".  This is particularly true of horn-loaded loudspeakers that have significant inherent fidelity advantages over those typical direct radiating loudspeakers that fill the rest of the home hi-fi loudspeaker marketplace. Roy's presence--along with several other Klipsch engineers over the years--has slowly educated and informed a lot of long-term customers that frequent this forum to this day.  Many customers have come and gone but there remains a dedicated group here that have adopted a much greater amount of real engineering knowledge of acoustics and loudspeaker design--in place of the commonly found audiophile memes (i.e., knowledge that wasn't learned first-hand) that seem to infest other "audiophile forums". 

 

On 6/14/2019 at 9:33 AM, Alessio said:

On other audiophile forums they all talk about famous amps, high end DACs, huge cables… i mean, all that expensive stuff. And speakers, of course...I'm well aware this is, let me call it, a 'speakers forum', but I'm quite surprised anyway because I don't see any trace of all those expensive devices.

Note that there are probably other factors for the forum culture arriving at what it is today: reasonably consistent and effective forum moderation over time and the type of typical socioeconomic status of most of the participants also played a very big part.  Initially I believe that the K-forum looked a great deal like the other audio forums on the web when it started in 1999, but over time I think that it has coalesced into an even better informed group of customers--that as a group don't put up with what I'd call "audiophilia" (the type of memes that pseuds and prigs associated with audio reproduction espouse freely...which are analogs to the type of ostentatious and vocal wine tasters that value mostly the price of the beverages they consume).  To be sure, this forum also had its fair share of those types that passed through--sometimes very quickly. 

 

If you've ever actually traveled to southwest Arkansas where the original Klipsch plant is located, I think that you would begin to understand the "down to earth--no BS" attitude of the typical customers...and has also formed a core set of the people that have worked at the company as engineers and technicians--as I believe that this has also influenced the corporate culture as much as the founder himself did (PWK). Mr. Klipsch instituted an engineering culture of sound reproduction and reinforced it through his favorite polemic device: the yellow BS button that he wore to conventions and trade shows...and flashed many times to those that began to believe their own BS:

 

429602526_KlipschLapelBSButton.thumb.jpg.55fe364f4f0e0898549705723e9fa908.jpg

 

On 6/14/2019 at 9:33 AM, Alessio said:

Speaking of amps, for example, I've only seen mentioned Crown amps. A brand i wasn't even aware of. I'm not even sure if they are considered hi-fi…?  BTW, I've been reading several threads on bi-amping, where those Crown amps pop up here and there.  And they're used to pilot quite expensive Klipsch speaker systems...What are your thoughts on that? 

I find that there is always a peculiar focus on amplifiers in the "audiophile" world, but curiously a systemic and generalized ignorance of room acoustics and loudspeaker interactions with room acoustics. Perhaps this is due to the typical story of people with electrical engineering/technologist backgrounds that understand amplifiers and wiring, but are really quite oblivious to room acoustics and the physics and psychophysics (how people hear) of acoustic drivers in assemblies we call loudspeakers.  Perhaps what's important is the type of owners that value how something sounds in excess of how it looks--playing recordings that are actually good quality recordings, instead of the over-processed pablum that you typically find playing on top-40 radio.  I suspect that the "country hicks" that tend to be associated with Klipsch loudspeaker ownership do know something that those "refined-taste city folk" haven't figured out yet: accuracy of reproduction is the most important single requirement that underpins listening enjoyment. 

 

PWK was an unwavering disciple of accuracy of reproduction (a fact that I believe actually limited his fully deserved recognition of contributions within JAES and other societies, even though he was presented lesser awards from them in his lifetime).  His company became a cultural island of devotion to that standard of accuracy in audio reproduction--contrary to the stories that persist that oppose that fact. 

 

Many here apparently still do not know these facts--and may in fact deny that they are important, but nevertheless still enjoy the benefits of that original engineering-focused culture based on reproduction accuracy that persists in the company's product lines. 

 

Chris

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Just for grins and giggles I posted "Building a 27hz single fold horn for a two way horn system" on Audiogon. 63 views and no comments because I guess dirty hands are the tools of plebes. Perhaps I will go back and post an article talking about the improvement $10,000 speaker wires made on the same system and see what happens. Some interesting posts over there but mainly of interest as an unmeant kind of amusing satire on pretentious elitist human behavior. There is a profound difference between those who seek stature as an audiophile and those who are audiophiles because of love of music.

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From time to time, as necessity dictates, I sell off lesser, or more aptly put never, used equipment. 

 

It was in one such exchange that I found it close to impossible to contain my myself from bursting out laughing. A very respectful gentleman that purchased a pair of RB-61’s from me (I no longer have any use for a bookshelf speaker, with the exception of my Hersey’s - lol) made the point of telling me face-to-face that he was “buying them for his daughter.”

 

He followed that up by stating he preferred the “studio sound” over the “live sound.” No harm, no foul. 

 

But... the thing is, my sister and I still laugh to this day when we recall as children our mother taking us along to Sears to buy something, flagging down a sales rep and asking them “excuse me, MY CHILDREN were wondering...” When in fact my sister and I were oblivious to the entire process. 

 

It was simply an attempt to “save face.”

 

Another comparison would be “I only read it for the articles.”

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